> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening Tonal vowels for a newbie Home New Posts
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Dutch -
Ah well doesn't really matter. Just playing with the idea.
Those pronunciation guides are great though .
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JoH -
Xuechengfeng - I wish teachers wouldn't do that kind of thing. I can't say a third tone without my head bobbing up and down.
shibo77 -
If you pay a visit to the Old City: East City District, there are about a few hundred, or thousand Russians living there. In the morning I go there and haggle prices for a cabbage in Russian, and they haggle back in Chinese, it's great! You can see Orthodox churches as well. But there are more if you travel to the Northeast.
- Shibo добро пожаловать к Peking, hoop u een goede reis hebt!
xuechengfeng -
joh.. not necessarily bobbing ur head up and down, merely showing eyebrow expression with a higher tone, just like when people sing. i've never seen anyone say it's a distraction, and it helps some perfect the tone.. so to each his own.
Dutch -
Quote:
Originally Posted by shibo77
If you pay a visit to the Old City: East City District, there are about a few hundred, or thousand Russians living there. In the morning I go there and haggle prices for a cabbage in Russian, and they haggle back in Chinese, it's great! You can see Orthodox churches as well. But there are more if you travel to the Northeast.
- Shibo добро пожаловать к Peking, hoop u een goede reis hebt!
Wow! That's impressive, thanks .
Checked out the recorded samples. I believe the editors of Fodor's and Lonely Planet really must do something about their hearing. Is it possible to pronounce "xie-xie" (sorry, no accents) as "shay-shay" ? They must be deaf.
Oh! One more thing (sorry for asking too many questions). How do numbers (1, 2, 3, 4) correlate with the tonals? Who is who?
ala -
I pronounce it as shay-shay. or closer to shey-shey. it's not standard, but everyone understands me just fine.
Dutch -
Hmm... That's a little confusing. Is it dialect thing, or sounds similar to the standard for the Chinese?
kentsuarez -
The best way is to try to find a native speaker near you who can help you a little with the tones; if you can't find one, you can easily find help upon arrival, as there are tons of Chinese who are very friendly and eager to help. When the hotel staff aren't busy, they're often eager to help, too, especially the ones in boring posts where they guard an empty hallway for hours. And you never know, you might end up marrying him/her -- that's how my parents met! (in Mex. City)
ala -
Quote:
Hmm... That's a little confusing. Is it dialect thing, or sounds similar to the standard for the Chinese?
Not everyone pronounce Mandarin like the dictionary pinyin. Afterall, language is alive, and pinyin is but a means to represent the sounds (the Standard) in a user friendly manner. Like how many people actually know that there's a glottal stop final in syllables with Tone 3? Northerners (Beijing) typically pronounce the "w" as a v-ish (though not an English v) sound, etc. I pronounce xiexie as sheyshey, because I had a lot of trouble pronouncing the pinyin x in grade school, and even though I know how to pronounce it now, I have no motive to change how I speak because I can still be understood. And other people do it too.
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> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools Language Schools Teaching Methods Home New Posts
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ChouDoufu -
I actually got this idea from roddy's post on another thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy
Ok, I'm now in a position to answer my own question. I went along to the Bridge School last night to try a lesson. .... I wasn't too impressed with the structure of the lesson - read the new words, read the text, repeat for two hours.
I've noticed that this is often the method for courses in foreign languages. Unfortunately, for high intermediate to advanced level students it seems somewhat inadequate (at least to me). Does anyone have any experience with different teaching methods used in BJ?
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roddy -
No, but I daresay you could get it if you were at a private language school, had a receptive teacher, and knew what you wanted.
Roddy
Anonymous -
When my ex-girlfriend took Chinese at our university, her Advanced Chinese laoshi used a textbook called the Promises and Peril of China where they read (mostly) Lu Xun's literature, among other modern writers. Then they would actually discuss the moral of the stories and sometimes even have debates. However, they do still have new vocabularies though. She told me it was a lot more interactive and fun for the advanced students.
JoH -
I can't really answer your question I'm afraid, as I haven't studied in Beijing. But I'd be really interested to know you consider to be good teaching methods for a group class. My teacher is always handing out feedback forms and stuff and I'm sure he'd be happy to try out new ideas, if I could think of any.
At the moment, he gives us some reading to prepare before each class and asks us all to prepare something to say so that we can discuss the topic. We've been reading a lot of confucius lately (with explanations in modern chinese as well) and the discussion could be on anything from corruption to the iraq war to family relationships ... pretty broad topics and he doesn't really mind what we say as long as we say something.
The classes are interesting but because they are quite informal I find I'm not really expanding my vocab much. I tend to rely on vocab that I know rather than being pushed by a textbook to learn 50 new words a lesson or something. I guess I should be doing more of the boring repetitive stuff outside of class...
ChouDoufu -
Discussion based classes are always pretty good in my opinion. I guess that's more along the lines of what I'm looking for. A possible way to improve would be for the teacher to assign vocabulary that might be useful in a discussion about a reading. For instance, if you're reading about Confucius and his views on music you can add vocabulary about music styles today or something like that.
When I get to BJ i'm going to have to get my spoken Chinese back up to snuff, and then I'm going to have to focus on building my vocabulary again.
I felt like there are 4 distinct levels in language ability. 1. beginner - just that. Someone who just started. 2. intermediate - knows the basics and is able to do things but isn't quite able to express themselves well. 3. advanced - has a strong grasp of the language and i able to express themselves on a variety of subjects. 4. fluent - is able to express themselves in the same way a native speaker would.
I think the difference between 2 & 3 and 3 & 4 are mainly vocabulary (and word choice between 3 & 4). To try to increase my vocaublary to the level of Chinese people I've tried different tactics: newspapers and magazines (for the variety of different subjects), I found a nice dictionary called a tujie (tushuguan de tu) cidian for learning all those random words that you can describe but don't know what to call (along with pictures--this book actually taught me the english words for a lot of trees and flowers and such that I didn't know the word for in english). I'm also still looking for a good method to learn the regular speech patterns of people. I'm thinking that the best place (besides talking to people of course) might be in those little fiction novels that some people read, but I'm not too sure if that is the best place, so if anyone has any suggestions on how to learn how to speak like the Chinese do, please let me know.
Also, what are some of the methods people have used to learn how to write well in Chinese? This is very, very far away for me, but I'd still be interested in hearing them.
james0531 -
Perhaps I can shed some light on Bridge School. I checked out several of the programs in Beijing prior to going there. Compared to the other private schools, Bridge School has its act together. Compared to a university, it is still lacking. But it all depends on what your schedlue will allow and how much you want to push yourself.
I went there and did levels 1-3 of their 5 level program. I found level 1 to be the best. The students all came in knowing nothing and the teaching style was flexible enough to accomodate us all. It was a soft introduction to Chinese.
But from level 2 on, the school tends to push students upwards, regardless of their abilities. Because it is a private school, they are reluctant to tell a student they can't advance, as the school does not want to lose the income by causing their students to leave. This played havoc on our classtime, as some students either didn't remember/know what they had learned in lower levels, or they weren't doing any work outside of class. For those of us who were, it was a drag on our studies.
In one of the problem classes, 3 of the 7 students complained to the management about the quality of the teacher. They did nothing to change the situation. We three ended up paying extra to leave the classs and take on a private teacher. The school did not discount the private lesson fee, nor offer us any other recompense. They told us their program and fees were fixed and were not subject to negotiation.
I found their teachers inconsistent. My first teacher was fantastic. The second flat-out sucked. The third had difficulty keeping the class focused and moving forward. My last teacher was also terrrific. So it's hit and miss there.
Then they raised their hourly rates to 100 rmb in May 2002, which I think is way overpriced for classroom teaching. The school did not raise the teacher's wages when they raised the tuition. I talked to my teacher and cut a deal for private lessons. It's a win-win. He gets paid more than the school will give him and I get a big discount.
Because the Bridge School doesn't want to upset its students, it does not push them to work hard, nor hold them accountable. Most of it's students are either working full time and studying after hours, or are non-working spouses taking Chinese to fill their days.
If you want a well structured curriculum that will push you to excell in yor language learning, go to a university. If you want a flexible program that has an established track record and will accomodate your schedule, go to the Bridge School.
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> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese thanks, Hu Jintao. thanks a bloody lot. Home New Posts
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AmrDiab -
People here with a moderate amount of English are quite happy to use the word "language" for any local form of speech, be it a village, a province, or bigger. eg "My hometown language", or "My mother speaks Fujian language". They either don't demand to be told how to say "fangyan" in English, or forget it once they are told.
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AmrDiab -
Couldn't we just try literally translating "fangyan" as "local tongue"?
Anonymous -
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmrDiab
Couldn't we just try literally translating "fangyan" as "local tongue"?
I believe "local tongue" is the closest translation to "fangyan".
wix -
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulong
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmrDiab
Couldn't we just try literally translating "fangyan" as "local tongue"?
I believe "local tongue" is the closest translation to "fangyan".
I think the word bendihua is a much better translation of local tongue. As I noted earlier the word fangyan causes a lot of confusion because it means both language and dialect. Hence use of the term bendihua where appropriate is preferable as there is no confusion about the meaning of this word.
Anonymous -
Quote:
I think the word bendihua is a much better translation of local tongue. As I noted earlier the word fangyan causes a lot of confusion because it means both language and dialect. Hence use of the term bendihua where appropriate is preferable as there is no confusion about the meaning of this word.
True, bendihua is a good translation for "local tongue", but I thought we were trying to find a proper English translation of fangyan.
adambsmurf -
I've actually been told in the past that my fangyan is really good, although, believe me, I didn't speak the local dialect with them. I've also been told that I speak Tianjinhua very well, even though, again, I make sure to speak "proper" mandarin.
Slowly, very slowly, I realized that what they're really saying is that when I speak Mandarin they can tell I've lived in Tianjin a long time. I have a slight "Tianjin" accent (along with a foreigner's as well of course).
I think that's a pretty good illustration of how Chinese treat "languages".
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> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary Is chinese grammar easy? don't you just love chinese words? Home New Posts
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calibre2001 -
I like channamasala's explaination. I get the impression that written chinese is a stilted language (albeit logical) from that explaination.
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Lu -
You dug up a five-year-old thread just to say that?!
tooironic -
Personally, I think Chinese grammar is beautiful in its simplicity. I think the fact that it expresses things like tense lexically is pretty awesome, given the fact that tense is one of the biggest obstacles for learners of the English language, or any other European language for that matter. I also love how they don't differentiate between number or gender categories - it makes you realise that grammar constructions such as these are pretty meaningless and unnecessary. Call me crazy but in my mind Chinese grammar is one of the most logical and straight forward grammars in the world, and I am utterly confused why the OP made such a comment as "you have to learn constructions by heart" - what constructions are you talking about?? Stuff like 因为／所以？？ Big deal!
self-taught-mba -
Lu,
It was worth it to me. I hadn't seen the thread before today. I think it's great too!
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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening standard mandarin Home New Posts
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skyblue -
hi lu
most standard mandarin in the north east? is that harbin like kdavid says?
the shaw brothers also make movies in mandarin, especially the huang mei diao movies...i love the sound of mandarin from these movies so i was just wondering what accent of mandarin they have.
sam --
we are from the shan tou area of guang dong, but i have yet to go there for at least once in my life.
yonglin --
it's more about loving to listen to a certain type of accent....i don't have a problem understanding mandarin from different people of different accent...but thanks for the explanation it does help me understand the situation more.
everyone else - thank you
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renzhe -
If you want to hear the "standard" Mandarin, you should probably listen to some of the state-owned media, like CCTV, they should have rather "standard" pronunciation.
I find that the chinesepod.com staff has very clear pronunciation, you can try downloading some of the advanced lessons and giving it a listen.
I think that the "standard" Mandarin is a bit like the BBC English in the sense that very few regions speak exactly like that, it's just a golden standard, which is most closely approximated by how the people speak in the north-East. Similar thing with standard German, which is apparently only really spoken around Hanover. Most other places have their regionalisms. Therefore, the TV and radio presenters, trained actors, and similar professions should be the closest to it.
Mugi -
Quote:
I have been reading 儒林外史which is an 18th century vernacular novel. I think much of the standardization of Mandarin was based on these vernacular novels. You will not find any 儿in these novels to be certain.
You won't necessarily find 儿 suffixes marked in modern novels either, even if they're set in Beijing and written by a native of Beijing. The written form of any language, even when quoting speech, usually deviates substantially from the spoken form.
imron -
Quote:
I find that the chinesepod.com staff has very clear pronunciation,
Clear pronunciation - yes, standard pronunciation - not always. I'm not sure about the other levels, but in advanced at least, it's not uncommon to hear incorrect finals e.g. -n instead of -ng.
atitarev -
It's interesting that different people's opinion on standard Mandarin is well, different.
Even teachers often mispronounce some initials and finals when they are not paying attention, even when they do, and forget the correct pinyin in some instances.
In my opinion, it's important to pay attention and try to speak as correctly as possible but accept that there are varieties even within standard Mandarin (Beijing, Taiwan, Mandarin spoken southern provinces).
Beijing Mandarin is considered the "most" standard but they use too much 儿.
Hanover German is closer to standard but they often pronounce "stehen" as "stehen", not shtehen.
bamboo -
hi Sam, is your novel 儒林外史 in paper form or soft copy like html? Thanks,
imron -
Not sure about Sam's copy, but an online copy can be found here.
Lu -
Quote:
most standard mandarin in the north east? is that harbin like kdavid says?
As you can probably see on any map of China, yes, Harbin is in the northeast.
Sam Addington: what mugi says, -r is usually not written out, so its absence in novels doesn't say anything about pronounciation in the time that novel was written.
lokki -
Quote:
But really, every decent Chinese course will teach you decent Mandarin, even if what you hear on the street is sometimes different from what you learn in class. Taiwanese speak their Guoyu actually clearer (in my opinion) than Beijingnese, but they hardly have any retroflexes and leave out all erhua.
According to my Taiwanese teacher (that I had for just a month last year), they don't leave all of the er hua out, but they have much less of it than beijing.
Another characteristic is that the Taiwanese use the neutral tone much less than mainlanders.
Lu -
In my experience, the Mandarin of Taiwanese Mandarin teachers is more standard (ie more erhua, more zh ch sh) than that of other Taiwanese. What I usually hear around me is no erhua at all, people even leave out the -r in 二.
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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing What is sophisticated mandarin?? Home New Posts
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calibre2001 -
Was wondering if you guys can provide excerpts or links to modern chinese texts that uses high level stylised and sophisticated writing? I would like to gauge my level of reading comprehension. I would also think it is beneficial for all fellow learners too.
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renzhe -
I recommend looking at the (excellent) Chinese Sampler. It has excerpts from modern and traditional texts, graded by difficulty.
If you try a few texts, you should be able to gauge your level very quickly.
Keep in mind, though, that these are real texts, written by Chinese authors for Chinese readers, so even the simplest texts are quite challenging for foreign language learners.
calibre2001 -
Thanks. Very informative indeed. My reading still sucks!
Didn't read the entire texts but ...
I find the 2.5 rating for 'Midnight' and 'Eagle Shooting Heroes' somewhat misleading. The way Jin Yong phrases things is either very distant from Mandarin or he uses a lot of flowery but antiquated phrasings. Whereas for 'Midnight' if you've been learning Mandarin, it's definitely more straight forward to follow.
skylee -
Re #3. It probably has to do with the background of "Eagle" being the Song Dynasty, vs that of "Midnight" being early 20th century. As to "a lot of flowery but antiquated phrasings", I would suggest you refrain from making such comments until you could write like Louis Cha or at least till you are able to fully understand his writing.
renzhe -
LOL.
Keep in mind that the 2.5 grading falls right between 红楼梦 (graded 2.3), and 西游记 (graded 2.8 ).
As I said, it is not easy
While I was in China, I got a printed copy of 金庸's 射雕英雄傳. My girlfriend's mother's comment: "But that's for middle-school children! That's not high-level literature, it's too easy!"
calibre2001 -
skylee,
I'm not slamming down Jin Yong or anything. I have watched many tv series adaptions of his novels and have high respect for him. By those remarks I'm just saying that my level of chinese is still behind to appreciate it rather than to imply it's pretentious or anything of that nature. One of my aims is to be able to appreciate it the way native speakers can.
It seems to contain plenty of original short stories written by people. Having read one or two, I reckon this could be a useful stepping stone and source of practice for learners to familiarise themselves with creative chinese writing. For example,
Let me know what you think. Would appreciate if you've found similar things in the past.
renzhe -
Thanks for the link, I'll give it a look, but I'm quite busy nowadays.
What I personally found indispensable for practicing reading were comic books, and I've been raving about them to everyone willing to listen.
They offer oceans of reading material at all imaginable levels. From really simple stuff like Doraemon, through teenager comics like Ranma 1/2, to the darker, more complex ones.
Right now, I'm about 2500 pages into Ranma 1/2, and I love every minute of it. It's still full of words and characters I don't know, but I can read the vast majority of it just fine. It's done wonders for my reading comprehension and speed. I usually don't read comics at all, but this is perfect for my purposes -- easy reading, very funny, you can dip in and out, and the images give you clues when you're not sure. And the language is managable.
EDIT: Given the title of this thread, I must clarify that this is absolutely NOT sophisticated Mandarin !!!!!!!
imron -
I used to read quite a few Tintin comics in Chinese. They were great.
lilongyue -
After a recent trip to one of China's more historical Buddhist temples (and one that is still a functioning Chan monastery and not a tourist trap) I can back with a few collections of the abbot's teachings. Since they are transcribed talks, and not discourses on philosophy but practical ways to implement Buddhism in one's daily life, it's perfect reading, basically spoken Chinese, lightly edited. Every so often I run into a page or two with tons of characters I don't know, but usually if I'm too lazy to read with a dictionary in hand I can still understand the meaning. Anyway, that's been my Chinese reading material of late. Oh yeah, and I read Japanese comic books, too.
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"smooth transition" doesn't make any sense to me...
Do you have better suggestions?
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monto -
I think "smooth transition" is Ok here.
Actually, 圆滑 here means "round and smooth" . The idea may be better explained with a pics. It is not 圆滑 in pic 1 when the level get lower, while 圆滑 in pic 2. 圆滑的过渡 at point A' and B',
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> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations Need help to translate a sentence Home New Posts
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vincent123 -
Please help to translate this: 仰望着的时间长河从我指隙间流逝
Especially this: 我指隙间流逝
Thanks.
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monto -
仰望着的时间长河从我指隙间流逝
The long river of time I was looking up ran away through my finger gaps.
vincent123 -
Thank you very much, monto. The long river of time could be means as the very long time in Chinese? I translate this to Vietnamese. Now I understood; this sentence was really hard to get its meaning without your help. Thanks again.
monto -
Quote:
The long river of time could be means as the very long time in Chinese?
Yes. Chinese have a long history of relating the time to river:
子在川上曰: 逝者如斯夫! Confucius, standing by a river, said, “Time passes on just like this"!
HashiriKata -
Quote:
I translate this to Vietnamese. Now I understood; this sentence was really hard to get its meaning without your help.
I wouldn't envy you in this. When you translate from one language to another, you need something meaningful to translate, but this is not it. (It's a mingle of big words & cliches which even the author probably has little idea of what it means either )
monto -
Quote:
When you translate from one language to another, you need something meaningful to translate, but this is not it. (It's a mingle of big words & cliches which even the author probably has little idea of what it means either )
It's quite to the point. The original sentence is "做作"(affected or, say unnatural) some way, and not quite logical. It is water or something similar that runs through gaps between fingers, not a river.
comparison:
三十八年过去，弹指一挥间。
vincent123 -
仰望着的时间长河从我指隙间流逝 The long river of time I was looking up ran away through my finger gaps.
With the monto's English translation, I suddenly understood I was able to translate to my language like "poetic", as means in Vietnamese: the long river of time = the endless string of time, and ran away = flow forever; because of endless, I must used forever.
The endless string of Time has flowed through my finger gaps forever. as in Vietnamese: Dòng thời gian bất tận mà tôi ngước trông cứ theo khe hở tay trôi mãi!
imron -
Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives.....
vincent123 -
Quote:
Like sand through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives....
Oh! imron, please give me its Chinese characters.
HashiriKata -
Quote:
With the monto's English translation, I suddenly understood I was able to translate to my language like "poetic"
If it's supposed to be "poetic", then it can be forgiven
So, let me try : 仰望着的时间长河从我指隙间流逝 = Dòng sông thời gian mà tôi ngưỡng vọng cứ theo kẻ hở của bàn tay trôi mãi...
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> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations Translation of an address Home New Posts
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mulin -
I've taken 2 semesters of Chinese, so I have some basic knowledge and understand quite a few characters.
I need an English translation for an address in China. Addresses aren't as easy to translate as I thought!
Here is the address:
中国广西省南宁市新阳北三路10一号9栋1单元602号房
Here is the part of the address I'm sure I understand:
中国广西省南宁市: China, Guangxi Province, Nanning City
Does "北三路" mean "North 3 Road"?
I don't get what "新阳" means, and I'm afraid I'm totally lost as to the last part of the address: "10一号9栋1单元602号房"
I would appreciate very much any help that any of you smart people can give me!
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cdn_in_bj -
Quote:
Here is the address:
中国广西省南宁市新阳北三路10一号9栋1单元602号房
Here is the part of the address I'm sure I understand:
中国广西省南宁市: China, Guangxi Province, Nanning City
Looks good so far.
Quote:
Does "北三路" mean "North 3 Road"?
I don't get what "新阳" means,
Actually, it looks like the street is called "新阳北三路". See the #1 point of interest on the following map:
Also, instead of trying to translate it into English, it would probably be better to use pinyin: XinYangBeiSanLu.
I've seen some English business cards for Chinese companies here where they translated the address word-for-word and it made absolutely no sense at all.
Quote:
and I'm afraid I'm totally lost as to the last part of the address: "10一号9栋1单元602号房"
10一号: 11 is the street address 9栋: building 9 in the complex 1单元: 1st entrance 602号房: unit #602.
Not exactly sure how you'd write this in English, however. The 单元 thing always gets me too. Maybe something like this:
No.11 XinYangBeiSanLu, Building 9, Entrance 1, Unit 602.
But no guarantees this will get your letter delivered to the proper destination.
Lu -
I mostly second that, but please write that road as Xinyang Bei San Lu. (It means Xinyang North Third Road, but chances is Chinese postmen won't understand if you write that.)
And I wonder about 10一号. If they meant 11 you'd think they'd write 11 (or 十一). I suspect it might mean 'the first number 10', with the buildings next to it being 10二 and then 10三, and after a while number 12. Some buildings here in Taipei have something like that. Don't know about Nanning though.
So in English you'd write:
Zhang San Xinyang Bei San Lu No 10-1, building 9, entrance 1, room 602 Nanning City Guangxi Province China
But since it's for a school assignment, they might prefer:
Zhang San Xinyang North Third Road, No 10-1, building 9, entrance 1, room 602 Nanning City Guangxi Province China
yonglin -
To be honest, I find "translating an address" quite a weird thing to do. I mean, it's not like I translate my address in Sweden into English when I give it to an English speaker. If I did, then an address looking something like this
Rådjursvägen 15b 123 45 Umeå
might turn into something like this.
15b, Raindeer Road Umeå 12345
which would (1) fail the electronic address scanning system they use these days (because it's in the wrong order), (2) probably wouldn't get there anyway, since no one would connect "Raindeer Road" to its Swedish-language equivalent. Since some people have a hard time writing Chinese characters, I suppose we must accept that addresses are written in pinyin. We note that each Chinese road is likely to have two "official names" (e.g., printed on the street sign). However, for a road like 西大街, this is "Xi Dajie" rather than "West Avenue" 99/100 times.
Two observations:
(1) Addresses written in roman letters (e.g., in Swedish, French, Spanish) get to keep their original formats abroad. (2) Addresses written in other letters (e.g., Chinese) are subjected to some Anglosaxon address format, even after they introduced a way to transcribe their language into roman letters (e.g., pinyin).
This is what I would call cultural imperalism.
(I bet this practice probably comes from somewhere like HK, where both formats have been used in a parallel fashion for a long time. Thus, it is probably the remains of colonialism.)
monto -
As a homework, I agree with Lu, especially for understanding of "10一号". As for real posting thing, I agree with yonglin, a letter with address in English may have trouble in reaching the destination. A a letter to China, It is better to just give the names of the city, province and country in English, which followed by full address in Chinese. I.E. To: Nanning City, Guangxi, PR China. 中国广西南宁市新阳北三路10一号9栋1单元602号房 王五 收
I believe it is just a homework and the address is not real one, because 广西 is not a 省, it's 广西壮族自治区.
liuzhou -
Quote:
because 广西 is not a 省, it's 广西壮族自治区.
True, but many people refer to it as 广西省. I've even seen it on local government websites, signs etc.
cdn_in_bj -
Quote:
And I wonder about 10一号. If they meant 11 you'd think they'd write 11 (or 十一). I suspect it might mean 'the first number 10', with the buildings next to it being 10二 and then 10三, and after a while number 12.
Good catch - I had missed that originally. I'd be interested in knowing what the "right" answer is.
mulin -
Thanks for all your help! You were very helpful.
Actually, this was not homework, it's an actual address of a person who lives in Nanning. I made a wire transfer of money to a friend, and my bank wanted the recipient's address "in English".
The recipient is the one who wrote "广西南", and not "广西壮族自治区". I'm not sure why, as she is Chinese (and I assume she'd know the difference) - maybe she thought it would be better understood as a "province" and not an "autonomous region".
I agree with those of you who said that the practice of translating Chinese characters and addresses into Western address formats is sort of a remnant of imperialism. I told the person at the bank that addresses doen't exactly translate word for word, but it seemed immaterial to her.
monto -
"province" vs "autonomous region".
There are five autonomous regions : 西藏、新疆、内蒙古、宁夏、广西。 So far I haven't seen a single case there “省” was used with 西藏、新疆 or 内蒙古.
skylee -
Have you seen any cases of referring Ningxia and Guangxi as 寧夏省 and 廣西省 respectively?
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玛丽 wants to go to the zoo. Why does she say 咱们说去就去? Wouldn't she say this after confirming with 王蜂 that he would go with her? I think I don't really understand the meaning of咱们说去就去.
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sebhk -
She refers to buying the bicycle and in this context the meaning is something like "Ok, then lets go and buy it".
By the way, this dialog sounds very familiar. Is this from one of the 初级汉语口语 or 中级汉语口语 books from Peking University?
andy_kok -
说去就去 means stop talking and begin doing, or when we decide to do someting, and do it right now. For example, 说干就干，means we have decided to do something, so stop talking ,let's move right now
I have a question,why I can't post new thread ? I have activated my account...
renzhe -
You will get full posting privileges after you post a few posts that aren't spam.
It's a type of a spam filter, everyone goes through it at first.
yohosuff -
Thanks for the help, but where does 王蜂 say that he'll go with her to get a bike? Does 玛丽 just assume he will go with her to buy it because he suggested buying a bike would be a good idea? I guess what I'm saying is, why does 玛丽 say 说去就去 when 王蜂 hasn't said 去 yet?
By the way, this is from 中级汉语口语-上册
skylee -
Look at it this way, except the 去 in 咱们说去就去, which means let's go buy a bike, all other 去's in the dialogue refer to going to the zoo.
Wang Feng : I say you should buy a bike. The zoo is less than half an hour by bicycle. With a bike, it is convenient wherever you want to go.
Mary : OK, I'll do what you said. Let's go (buy a bike). Wait, even with a bike I still don't know how to go to the zoo by myself.
Wang Feng: That's simple, here I am.
Mary: You mean you could go (to the zoo) with me?
Wang Feng: Sure.
yohosuff -
Ok, that clears it up. Thanks skylee.
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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening Zao, instead of "zao an" or "zao shang hao", but ... Home New Posts
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heixin -
Hi,
I've learned we can say just "zao" instead of "zao an" or "zao shang hao". Can we "cut" the "xia wu hao/wu an" or "wan shang hao/wan an" in that manner too?
Just wondering ...
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adrianlondon -
It would make sense, as you can do this in English, but I've never heard it done (apart from, as you already know, "zao an" to "zao").
roddy -
Nope. I think by the afternoon I think you're assumed to be capable of multisyllabic speech.
adrianlondon -
That's a pretty big assumption.
hi. uh. yeah. no. bye.
liuzhou -
wot?
Yong-Zhang -
I've learned we can say just "zao" instead of "zao an" or "zao shang hao". Can we "cut" the "xia wu hao/wu an" or "wan shang hao/wan an" in that manner too?
不可以。 but you can say an(安) instead of all of them.
L-F-J -
i have never heard it done, and i wouldnt try saying something i have never seen or heard. follow the natives. it only works for zao.
stanleyyou -
The habitual usage, in my opinion, just applies to ZAO, like you only say "Morning" but seldom "Evening" or "Afternoon" to greet others. Am I right?
adrianlondon -
Quote:
like you only say "Morning" but seldom "Evening" or "Afternoon" to greet others
I sometimes use those, and they don't sound weird. However, for informal greetings, "morning, hi, hi" is more often used (by me anyway) than "morning, afternoon, evening".
muyongshi -
I say afternoon and evening all the time and doesn't sound weird at all to me...
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> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China Average Salary for Expats in China. Home New Posts
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View Poll Results: Expats working in China, what is your monthly salary in RMB? < RMB 5,000 2 7.41% RMB 5,000 - 9,999 11 40.74% RMB 10,000 - 19,999 5 18.52% RMB 20,000 - 29,999 3 11.11% RMB 30,000 - 39,999 0 0% RMB 40,000 - 49,999 1 3.70% >= RMB 50,000 5 18.52% Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll
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cdn_in_bj -
Glad I could help.
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Springbokke -
This may be a dumb question but when it comes to identifying the correct applicable tax bracket does one use the pre-deduction salary figure, or the post-deduction figure?
Example
On a RMB30,000 monthly salary;
1. Pre-deduction calculaton - with quick calculation this puts the total at 30,000 - 4800 = 25,200 which is taxed at 25%, after other deductions of say 10,000 you are taxed 25% on the taxable amount of 15,200 which is 3800, minus 1375 = final tax amount of RMB2,475.
2. Post-deduction calculation - deduct both initial amount of 4,800 and the 10,000 to get a taxable amount of 15,200 which falls into the 20% category. Taxed at 20%, this leaves you with 3,040 - 375 = final tax amount of RMB2,665...
Am I going crazy here - you pay higher tax in a lower bracket??
cdn_in_bj -
Quote:
This may be a dumb question but when it comes to identifying the correct applicable tax bracket does one use the pre-deduction salary figure, or the post-deduction figure?
You use the tax bracket after all deductions.
Quote:
On a RMB30,000 monthly salary;
1. Pre-deduction calculaton - with quick calculation this puts the total at 30,000 - 4800 = 25,200 which is taxed at 25%, after other deductions of say 10,000 you are taxed 25% on the taxable amount of 15,200 which is 3800, minus 1375 = final tax amount of RMB2,475.
The thing that is messing you up here is the quick deduction. Calculating the tax manually in this scenario (without using the quick deduction) would give:
2. Post-deduction calculation - deduct both initial amount of 4,800 and the 10,000 to get a taxable amount of 15,200 which falls into the 20% category. Taxed at 20%, this leaves you with 3,040 - 375 = final tax amount of RMB2,665...
Am I going crazy here - you pay higher tax in a lower bracket??
The reason the tax appears to be lower in the first scenario is because of the quick deduction of 1375, which is supposed to compensate for the lower tax rates in the lower brackets (up to 20000). But since you're using the pre-deduction amount to determine the tax brackets, and using the post-deduction amount to calculate the tax, it no longer works. Put another way, without using the quick deduction how would you determine the tax paid in the lower tax brackets? You can't, as by assigning 15200 into the 25% bracket you've skewed the tax scale. Anyways, the first scenario bogus - don't worry about it. The second calculation is correct.
MartinF -
One thing I've found in my time in Beijing is that you will get more money working for an international corporation, especially if they had to recruit you from the USA.
So I made 2 mistakes which cause my salary to be quite low for a skilled ex-pat:
1) I was already in Beijing and just needed a job with a visa. 2) I am working for a Chinese company.
So despite my qualifications and experience (17 years in top US companies in my field) I get paid only 1/3 of what I'd get in the states for the same hours. I get no benefits. However, the cost of living, especially rent, is probably 1/3 of LA where I lived before. So maybe it's a wash.
So my goal is to find a job in Beijing with an international or multi-national corp and get the ex-pat package which I don't currently get. For example:
1) similar salary to the USA 2) apartment paid for 3) travel allowance (taxis, airfares) 4) food allowance 5) "entertainment" allowance
It certainly should be possible, so I'm on the look out. Your situation is considerably different and the advice given is very sound. Good luck.
cdn_in_bj -
Quote:
One thing I've found in my time in Beijing is that you will get more money working for an international corporation, especially if they had to recruit you from the USA.
That's pretty much the case, especially to the last part.
Quote:
So I made 2 mistakes which cause my salary to be quite low for a skilled ex-pat:
1) I was already in Beijing and just needed a job with a visa.
I don't necessarily agree that what you did was a "mistake", in fact I think it would've been much harder for you to find a job overseas with a company that would send you here right away as a new recruit. Unless you could've found job postings that were specifically for China postings. Of course, such postings might be easier to find for certain industries.
Quote:
2) I am working for a Chinese company.
So despite my qualifications and experience (17 years in top US companies in my field) I get paid only 1/3 of what I'd get in the states for the same hours. I get no benefits. However, the cost of living, especially rent, is probably 1/3 of LA where I lived before. So maybe it's a wash.
IMHO, getting a "local job" that relates to your area of expertise is nothing to be disappointed about. If anything it probably has given you more time to "ramp up" to living here and experience the local working culture. Even though you have not achieved your goals relating to compensation, I bet you've gotten to meet some good industry contacts. And from your other posts, it seems at the very least you've had time to enjoy the nightlife here.
Quote:
So my goal is to find a job in Beijing with an international or multi-national corp and get the ex-pat package which I don't currently get.
I think this is more realistic.
For example:
1) similar salary to the USA 2) apartment paid for 3) travel allowance (taxis, airfares) 4) food allowance 5) "entertainment" allowance
MNC should not be a problem, but I'm not sure about the "ex-pat package" unless you're going for a senior management position. That is not to say that you shouldn't try, however. And if you are qualified for such a position, then you can scratch what I just wrote. Anyways, good luck and keep us posted!
Springbokke -
Thanks cdn - that clears things up.
Now to minimize the tax burden......
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> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues Beginner Help Home New Posts
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tooironic -
Stick with simplified. It's a whole less work, and once you're at a higher level you can pick up traditional relatively easily if you want. Though I guess it depends what your goals with the language are.
By the way, renhe, which soap opera do you watch? And where do you watch it (tudou, PPS, etc)? I'm curious myself, as I've always watched Chinese sitcoms (which are just as amusing hehe).
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lotus_girl -
Hi
Im also new here, and i've started to learn Chinese little more than 2 months ago. And i simply love it! At the very begginning the most important i think is to feel that you study becasue you enjoy it.. Writing is really not that difficoult as it would seem at first... but you definetely need lot of practise whenever you learn a new character. I would advice to get a program which displays the order of the strokes, casue its extremely important. And as others said, you should practise every day as much as you can.
Personally, i learn around 3hours per day...sometimes more, sometimes less. i wish i had more time though! I have classes two times a week, and beside i use things i find on the net. (there are many great materials for free)
Actually i only learn the radicals when i came across them in new words, and it seems ok for me.But we are all different.
Hope you will enjoy your Chinese study!
renzhe -
Currently this one: http://www. /showthread.php?t=22426, before that I finished this one: http://www. /showthread.php?t=22427 .
I've also finished 好想好想谈恋爱, which was very high quality, but a bit difficult and girly. The one I'm watching now, 落地请开手机, is just right in terms of difficulty, and it's interesting enough to follow. I guess they aren't really traditional soaps, more like drama series, just one season, and a well-defined story with a beginning and an end.
I get them from verycd. I don't have many other choices here in Germany.
I'm always looking for interesting stuff to watch, so if you have good recommendations, I'm all ears! Especially good sitcoms, as they are easy to pop in and out of. I've seen some of 家有儿女, and it was somewhat amusing, but not enough to make me go through the entire thing.
imron -
Quote:
And where do you watch it (tudou, PPS, etc)?
Youku has lots of TV shows available for streaming. The picture quality isn't great, but it's passable. I've been watching quite a few shows on there recently.
You might also want to check out the Grand First Episode Project for some suggestions of shows to watch.
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> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology Question Regarding eStroke's New Release Home New Posts
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xiaojiang216 -
大家好，
I downloaded the newest version (v1.23) of eStroke. I was really happy to see that this version can export stroke sequences as GIF animations. However, every one I export cannot be opened. Is there something I am being stupid about?
谢谢大家！
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nubix -
xiaojiang216 the 2d and 3d versions of the animated gif work fine for me. How are you testing them? I dragged them from export directory into my browser.
xiaojiang216 -
nubix, I tried clicking and dragging them to my browser, and they work fine. However, when I try to open them in a program (Windows Picture and Fax Viewer), I cannot view it. What are the exported files meant to be used with/for?
非常感谢你！
nubix -
ahh, xiaojiang216, I see. Microsoft Picture Viewer will only show the first frame of the animation. Browsers show animated gifs fine and animated gif editors will play the gif as well. Animated Gifs are mostly for browser use though you can use them in some multimedia authoring packages.
If you wanted to create some online content for Chinese Language learning or revision animated gifs in the web page can be very useful.
I have used the eStroke characters in a different way: to help some others in my class who had little Hanzi writing practice. Right-clicking the estroke character and choosing copy allows me to paste the stroke animation as a picture sequence directly into Microsoft Word. This can then be used to create a hanzi practice sheet with the stroke animation sequence at the top of the page for students wanting to practice their writing.
xiaojiang216 -
Does anyone know if eStroke works on Macs?
imron -
From their homepage:
Quote:
eStroke runs on Windows 2000, XP and Vista.
However, if you use something like Parallels, you can run Windows programs in a virtual machine, and they work perfectly. That's how I access online banking with my Chinese bank, which only supports IE for logging in
tooironic -
Wow they only support IE? Crazy ! lmao
imron -
Yes, all Chinese banks that I'm aware of, and many Chinese websites, only support IE.
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> Chinese Culture > Music What is the name of this song? Home New Posts
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Alejandro69 -
hello,
There is a song that I heard when I was in China in 2006. Unfortunately I couldn't find out the name of the song neither the name of the male singer. I tried to whistle it in order that somebody in the forum help me. here it is the link: http://www.hotshare.net/audio/43852-9080181fc5.html
would anyone please help me? What is the name of this song? Who does sing it?
thank you in advance.
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elina -
I GUESS it’s 谁想轻轻偷走我的吻, but not sure, because the whistle is kind of 走调/out of tune I think.
yesssss. that is the song ! elina, thank you so much
you are right my whistle is 走调 i think i must improve it, hehehe
again thank you so much
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> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary Grammar #4: 了 Home New Posts
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roddy -
Quote:
Unless, 太瘦 can be used to mean pants in Mainland China
Yep, 瘦 can mean too tight for clothing. Too big / loose would be 肥, not 胖
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semantic nuance -
Thanks, roddy! That's new to me. It's good to know the different usages. We don't use 瘦 to mean pants here in Taiwan. We use 瘦 to mean people and animals.
anonymoose -
Quote:
剛才=剛剛=just now. Putting on pants happened in the past time. That meant 'putting on pants' had already been finished before the speaker made the statement. It's an action 'ALREADY' been done. So, 了 is added right after the action of '試穿'(try on).
That's exactly what I initially thought as well, but that seems to contradict Hashiri Kata's theory:
Quote:
The ideas behind 刚刚 and 了 are in fact in conflict here: 刚刚 implies "just/ barely/ not enough (for some purpose)" whereas 了 implies "already enough/ plenty/ too much/ too long (for some purpose)".
chenpv -
Quote:
Originally Posted by ‘anonymoose’
A chinese native speaker told me that in the sentence 我刚刚起床 the particle 了 should not be used.
我剛剛起了床 sounds just fine to me, though suggests quite a different meaning, as in the context of ' Somebody has been ill in bed for a long time. And he is just able to get out of bed.' or ' Guys who take great great efforts getting up on Sunday mornings.'
James Garrison -
Sorry to dig this old discussion up, but it's really interesting to me and I'd like to add a bit and post my own query.
A) 他生我的气了 - "he has become angry with me." (signifiying a change in someone's mood towards me, perhaps the above could be used to describe why someone suddenly got up and walked out)
B) 他生我的气 - this one just means "he is angry with me" and could mean that he has been angry with me for years or mere minutes.
Is that an accurate description of the use of 了 to describe a change in state/mood? If so, then I could add 刚to A, yeah?
Okay, one more question. 1) 我饿了 - I am hungry/I'm just now feeling hungry 2) 我很饿 - I am very hungry (perhaps it's 10 PM and I haven't eaten anything since an early breakfast)
Is that also a good illustration of the basic use of 了, and could I add "了" to the second sentence, right?
fireball9261 -
Quote:
不要伤我的心了，我刚才试了几条裤子，结果都因为太窄/小而穿不上，我可 真的是该减肥了 Or : 不要伤我的心了，我刚才试了几条裤子，结果因为(這些褲子)都太窄/小而穿 上，我可真的是该减肥了
anonymoose,
"我刚才试了几条裤子" => 了 is completing the verb 试. You need to look at that first. Then, you look at the time of the completion of that verb: "刚才" ==> "just now". Therefore, the action of the completed "trying on" the pants happened "just now".
"不要伤我的心了" => 了 is completing the verb "伤" with the objective noun "我的心". Then, you look at the "不要" ==> "Do not want to" or negative of the following sentence: "伤我的心了", so the whole sentence would be the negative of "complete(ly) hurting my heart"; i.e. "Don't hurt/break my heart!"
"我可真的是该减肥了" => 了 is completing the verb "减" reduce. What is being reduced? That is the noun "肥". Then, you look at the timing, "该', and that indicates a future time.
剛才=剛剛, and 剛剛 could be used in the sentence like 剛才 with the same way of analyzing the Chinese grammar.
In addition, I didn't see the explanation of the following usage for 了.
My husband asked me one time about what are the differences between the term "好的" and "好了" because he heard me say both a lot to my friends and my mom?
"好的" => OK in English with the idea of agreement for some requests.
"好了" => OK in English with the impatience or sometime placating tone of trying to shut the other guy up!
My husband used the proper term to shut up his Chinese co-worker who would not shut up in a meeting at one time. She was on and on in a very angry mode, and no one could calm her down in English (they were all white guys and the objects of her anger ). My husband having the most experience with an angry Chinese woman said to her in perfectly pronounced Chinese, "好了! 好了! 好了!" And she was so surprised that she shut up immediately!!! He was very proud of his nice usage of his very limited Chinese vocabularies -- He had about less than 10 Chinese phrases and about 5 Chinese grammar rules in the close to 30 years of being with me Most of his Chinese phrases and grammars are for Chinese food and dining table manners or to placate me when I am angry. He did use his Chinese to fool strangers who are Chinese that he knows how to speak Chinese and to fool our Chinese friends on the phone into thinking a Chinese is on the line!
SWWLiu -
Quote:
Originally Posted by fireball9261
My husband asked me one time about what are the differences between the term "好的" and "好了" because he heard me say both a lot to my friends and my mom?
"好的" => OK in English with the idea of agreement for some requests.
"好了" => OK in English with the impatience or sometime placating tone of trying to shut the other guy up!
... [To] shut up his Chinese co-worker who would not shut up in a meeting at one time, ... my husband ... said to her in perfectly pronounced Chinese, "好了! 好了! 好了!" And she was so surprised that she shut up immediately!!! He was very proud of his nice usage of his very limited Chinese vocabularies ...
My variant explanations:
"好的" => Good/Agreed/Yes. I'll do it.
"好了" => Good/Okay. It's done.
"好了! 好了! 好了!" => Okay, Okay. That's enough!
Your husband is a quick study, fireball9261. : )
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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing Questions on working as a translator Home New Posts
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kmmorr -
(First, let me apologize for posting this twice--somehow the text of my original post completely disappeared.)
I've recently come to a few very important conclusions:
1. I am strapped for cash and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, as next year I plan on going to grad school.
2. If possible I don't want to work normal part-time jobs, because they will interfere with my progress in Chinese, which I consider to be much more important to my future.
3. Because of this, the only part time job I really want to do is freelance translating.
So, I'm assuming some people in these forums have experience working as translators, and I'm hoping you can help answer a few questions I have. Here they are (and please do excuse me for my complete ignorance of the topic):
1. Just how good does your Chinese need to be if you want to translate written Chinese into English? This is perhaps the most important question. At present, I have pretty good reading skills, but I am not fluent, and in most texts (such as newspapers or non-academic books) I still encounter 3-5 words I don't know in each paragraph. I can quickly look these up in a dictionary, but reading is never really a breeze. I'd like to work as soon as possible, but I'm worried that I'm still far off from the level necessary to be a translator.
2. Are there any good books or courses that you can recommend to help someone prepare to be a translator?
3. How do you get started? Do you need some sort of certification?
I realize it's difficult to really gauge my Chinese level from that short description I gave above--I guess I'm just wondering how dependent on a dictionary a translator can be, and how much you can use a dictionary to make up for your slightly less-than-perfect Chinese.
Thanks very much for any help!
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roddy -
For my money, if you are willing to work at a slightly slower rate and take the hit to your hourly rate, you don't need to have 100% understanding of the text right off - view the time spent with dictionaries and Google searches as extra study. Obviously something you just can't make head or tails of is going to be horrible to work with, and you need to be realistic about your abilities - it's not the stuff you don't understand that catches you out when translating, it's the stuff you think you understand. 3-5 words per paragraph sounds a bit high though, and I'd suspect you're going to find your hourly rate dragged down quite a bit though - if you can accept that though, no problem. You're going to have to learn the words at some point anyway.
As for books, I never used any kind of course, I basically went from studying Chinese to a proofreading job, to freelancing. I do remember finding this book very useful. It's designed for Chinese translators, but English speakers are quite capable of making the same kind of mistakes if they're not careful. Apart from that I'd just recommend getting hold of different style guides / books on writing. It's easy to forget that at least 50% of translating Chinese to English is - English. Looking at my ebooks folder I have style guides from The Economist, the Guardian, and the BBC. The Oxford Essential Guide to Writing. Writing - The Elements of Style. How to Win Friends and . . no wait, never mind. Ernest Hemmingway On Writing (not necessarily that useful, but good fun). Basically, whatever works for you, but time spent on improving your English writing will be as well spent as time spent on improving your Chinese reading. Which might not be what you want to hear, but there you go.
What certification you need probably depends on where you are. Heifeng has been generously allowing us to vicariously take a Chinese exam here. I don't have any certification, basically all my work has come to me on the strength of luck and referrals.
This might also be of interest.
kmmorr -
Thanks very much for the reply, Roddy. To be honest, at the start I'd be more than happy to work at (very) low rates. As you mentioned, time spent on dictionary and google searches can be viewed as extra studying time--being paid (however much) to study Chinese sounds pretty sweet to me. Also, in my defense, a lot of the words I don't know are either nouns are transliterations of foreign names/place names (god how I hate those), so while I do have to check a dictionary, it doesn't necessarily waste an inordinate amount of time.
"The Translators Guide to Chinglish" certainly sounds good--I'll have to give it try. As for the books on style, I'll be going to grad school for journalism, so I figure I'll be needing all those anyway.
Anyway, I'm thinking of waiting another two or three months and then giving it a shot. I have no idea how I will cover up my complete lack of experience or any kind of certification on my resume, but hopefully I'll think of some (partially honest) way to do so.
simonlaing -
The pay rate on average in China is much less than teaching english. So if you're thinking of a job to help pay for living expenses of being a grad student Teaching is better and more reliable than translation.
You have to contact translation companies, try to go to famous ones (though there is not much of a ranking or standardized system) as they will be able pay more. You will be doing proofreading so advertise for that.
It also might be possible to do technical writing or other translation for large companies in China.
Good luck, Simon
You can try just going into offices to get jobs, or be put on the translator list, But guanxi and knowing people helps aswell
Lu -
To start with your last question: no, you don't need any certification to be a freelancer. You only need to convince the person who needs a translator that you are one.
As to resources, I recommend the dictionaries, and google. I've gotten really good at finding stuff there. Straight translations in obscure places, but if I can't find those, I just search for the word and browse the results to get a feel for what it means. Wikipedia is also very useful for names and more complicated terminology.
As to how much you understand, if at all possible it might be good to have someone check your work, at least at the start. Not sure how you would find such a person though. Personally I am sometimes quite dependent on a dictionary, how much really depends on the text. I have slaved through texts in which I had to look up almost every other word, while for some others I had to look up only a few words. I'm currently paid to translate, for a company that holds quite high standards, and using dictionaries is perfectly acceptable, as is asking native speakers what the hell this or that means.
Also, translating is quite different from reading. I've read articles with understanding virtually every word, yet while reading congratulating myself for not having to translate it. Have you ever tried your hand on translating something yet? If not, try it out.
Anyway, good luck! Translating Chin-Eng should be really good practice for both your studies.
kmmorr -
@simonlaing: I'm really just looking for any job--some kind of supplemental income. But I'd rather earn a small amount of money working in Chinese than a large amount of money doing something I don't want to do (i.e. teaching). It sounds like it will be quite difficult for me to get a job with no experience/recommendations (I have absolutely no guanxi in this area. . .). Do you think it would be worthwhile to prepare some kind of portfolio of sample translations?
@Lu: I have tried translating things before, and I know what you mean about the differences between straight reading and translating. The thing is, I kind of enjoy that aspect--it's fun to find phrases that are common or simple in Chinese but that require some serious thought before they can be translated into good English. I also have access to some Chinese friends who speak quite good English and would definitely help ease the pain of particularly difficult passages.
Anyway, thanks very much to both of you for your advice.
Lu -
Quote:
Do you think it would be worthwhile to prepare some kind of portfolio of sample translations?
What I did is basically: having mingpian printed saying that I'm a translator, and handing them out to absolutely everyone. I'm not making a living with freelance work, but assignments do come in now and then, even now that I'm not even looking for them since I have a fulltime job (as a translator). Making a portfolio and sending it to some companies or people that might need translating work done might work as well. And ask already-established translaters you may know to pass on work to you if they are too busy/not interested. You could also try finding translation bureaus in your home country (or anywhere else) and working through them. Translating can very well be done online.
msittig -
Quote:
It's easy to forget that at least 50% of translating Chinese to English is - English.
This is very important.
The translation book that Roddy recommended is also available on Taobao (USD 17 vs RMB 18-22).
simonlaing -
Knmorr,
Since you don't much mind about the amount you make, you should just try contacting the translation companies in your city. Espicially if you're in a city other than Shanghai or Hong Kong the number of Chinese capable native speakers is low and it is likely you will be in demand. Espicially for westerners just going up to companies and telling them you're interested in do this kind of work can help. if you're in Nanjing I could give you a few names.
Good luck, simon
kmmorr -
Thanks for the suggestions and help, Simon. Since I'm in Chengdu it looks like I'll have to venture out and find places on my own. I figure after two or three more months of hardcore studying I'll be confident enough to try it out . . .
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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing 舉一反三 Home New Posts
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82riceballs -
as I was surfing the web for example sentences if 舉一反三 I found the following sentence:
教學歷程將結束時，將學得的概念或原則，舉生活上的實例，使學生學到舉 反三的能力，從而衍生學習遷移。 I know that the first part means: When the course nears its end, apply the concepts and principles to daily life to ensure that the student will achieve total understanding of the concepts and principles... (any better translations?)
However, I can't figure out what the last part means... : "從而衍生" Ｉ ｔｈｉｎｋ ｔｈｉｓ ｍｅａｎｓ， ＂ｆｒｏｍ ｔ ｉｓ ｄｅｒｉｖｅ＂ ｂｕｔ ｗｈｙ 而？ ’學習遷移’ ｌｅａｒｎｉｎｇ ｍｏｖｅｍｅｎｔ？？？ Ｗｈａｔ ｏｅｓ ｔｈａｔ ｍｅａｎ？？？
Ｔｈａｎｋｓ ｉｎ ａｄｖａｎｃｅ！
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studentyoung -
Quote:
舉一反三
analogy (process of reasoning based on such similarity)
Quote:
"從而衍生"
“衍生” here means “develop”.
Quote:
學習遷移’ ｌｅａｒｎｉｎｇ ｍｏｖｅｍｅｎｔ？？？ Ｗｈａｔ ｄ ｅｓ ｔｈａｔ ｍｅａｎ？？？
It is called “transfer of learning” or “learning transfer”, which probably means the reconstruction of the knowledge (you’ve grasped) under new conditions.
Quote:
教學歷程將結束時，將學得的概念或原則，舉生活上的實例，使學生學到舉 反三的能力，從而衍生學習遷移。
At the end of the course, some daily life examples will be applied to concepts and principles students learns so that they can comprehend them by analogy and develop the skill of learning transfer.
Cheers!
s4074433 -
I agree with studentyong's explanation. I think the term "knowledge transfer" is more common than "learning transfer". The sentence basically means to be able to apply your knowledge in a different context.
Hope this helps.
82riceballs -
I have never heard of "transfer of learning" or "knowledge transfer" but after googling it, I found this website which explains that: "Transfer of learning deals with transferring one's knowledge and skills from one problem-solving situation to another."
Thanks guys!
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> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese ren wei chai si - help ? Home New Posts
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jiazhao -
Hello,
I am illiterate in Chinese. Can someone help with this?
ren wei chai si, niu wei si (food) wang.
From young, I seem to have heard in cantonese - yan wai choi sei, niu wai ZI (?) mong.
My guess is ZI may mean a new born bird. So the meaning is :- Man dies for wealth, while birds die for their young. I am likely wrong. Is there this classical version with "zi".
Thanks jiazhao
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skylee -
The saying is the same in Mandarin and Cantonese. It means, "men die for money, birds die for food".
The "ZI" in your post means food. Its other Cantonese pronunciation, which is much more common, is "sik". "zi" is an older pronunciation.
Although you can't read Chinese, the whold thing in Chinese is "人為財死，鳥為食亡".
jiazhao -
Thanks for the clarification.
I've got it now. Also I do read some simple Chinese like the words you gave.
jiazhao.
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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening Taiwanese Mandarin to Chinese Mandarin Home New Posts
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skylee -
It means "得" and should be written as "得". What input method does your friend use? Does he use cangjie? Or stroke order? Or bopomofo?
The bopomofo (zhuyin fuhao) for "得" is "ㄉㄜ" (among others). The one for "的" is also "ㄉㄜ" (among others).
Some people do use "得" and "的" interchangeably. It does not seem to be a Taiwan thing.
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Rhubarb -
Actually the logic behind these 的s used in lieu of 得s shouldn't be that hard to get as it's the same logic as in : 真的. So this usage shouldn't be looked down upon, especially by native Chinese speakers.
Lu -
I suspect your friend has seen too many typing errors and has come to believe that 的 is also correct in this case (perhaps combined with what skylee says, the bopomofo is the same for 的 and 得). People misspell in every language, Chinese is no exception.
muyongshi -
Quote:
I suspect your friend has seen too many typing errors and has come to believe that 的 is also correct in this case (perhaps combined with what skylee says, the bopomofo is the same for 的 and 得). People misspell in every language, Chinese is no exception.
Agreed this is all about errors and what people mispell.
Quote:
Actually the logic behind these 的s used in lieu of 得s shouldn't be that hard to get as it's the same logic as in : 真的. So this usage shouldn't be looked down upon, especially by native Chinese speakers.
There is not really any logic behind this as 真 is not a verb and 得 is used after a verb. And it's not looked down upon it's just simply wrong.
Rhubarb -
Quote:
There is not really any logic behind this as 真 is not a verb and 得 is used after a verb. And it's not looked down upon it's just simply wrong.
There is a logic and it is looked down upon.
muyongshi -
Rather than just state what you have stated before would you mind explaining the logic for us....
Rhubarb -
What? You haven't asked your teacher yet? tsk tsk!
fireball9261 -
Quote:
It's better to ask an educated native speaker but to me this is correct: 我跑得很快
and this is incorrect: 我跑的很快
IMHO, it's a typo, wherever you are.
In my experience, 我跑的很快 is correct, and 我跑得很快 is incorrect, because 得 has some other meaning and should be used differently and not in this particular sentence and in this way. Right now, my brain is mud after eating too well from my Xmas party with friends, so I couldn't give you a proper example. I will try to get back to this thread later.
I am a native Chinese speaker and have seen the usage of 的, 得, 地 changes from the early 1900 to now. Generally speaking, they are used interchangeably at one time or another. However, 的 and 地 are more like each other. 地 was used primarily in early 1900's. 得 is used in a more specific ways in the past. Nowadays, more mainland Chinese use 得 like 的 and 地 in the past. I am not sure whether the current modern mainland Chinese text books teach it this way, or just the usage changes due to one reason or another. Chinese language usage transforms from one period of time to another. For example: The term "afraid" was always "害怕" (hai4 pa4), but I have seen the term "後怕" (hou4 pa4 - afraid afterwards) used by the mainland Chinese more and more nowadays. I feel it is OK to use this term in some places (when the fear occurred after an incident), but not correct in many other incidences (like when one is afraid right then). However, who am I to stand in front of the changing language usage, especially there are a few billion mainland Chinese who are using it (even wrongly)?
atitarev -
Wow, fireball9261.
I respect the fact that you're a native speaker but you're wrong in this instance. Other native speakers (Skylee, Muyongshi) have confirmed my point.
I know these rules about the correct usage of 的, 得 and 地 are not always followed even by native speakers but I prefer to do the write thing.
Lu -
Fireball, I'm afraid you're mistaken, the three are often confused but in correct usage cannot be used interchangably. A lot of people, including native speakers, get it wrong all the time, but that still doesn't make it right. Here's a thread with explanations.
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