> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary Foreign Proper Nouns in Chinese (split from Chinese names) Home New Posts
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Anonymous -
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSkillet
I'm of two minds about this. Obviously it'll be easier for me if the CHinese started using English place names for everything - but then, I know lots of people really still know zero english - and it's a big disadvantage for them.
But on the other hand, I really dislike hearing "Si-ti-vu Fe-lan-ci-si" instead of Steve Francis
The Chinese writing system consists of only Hanzi, just like the English writing system consits of only Roman alphabet letters. Why should Chinese speakers incorporate Roman alphabet letters when they're writing? Both Japanese and Korean translate names of foreign places and people into their own writing systems as well (Kana and Hangul respectively).
Also, it would be a pain for non-English speakers to try to read and/or pronounce names written in English. For one thing, English isn't "pronounced the way it's spelled" like Spanish or Hanyu Pinyin. Each letter, vowels specifically, can be prounouced differently. For example, the letter "A" can be pronounced "ah", "eh", "aeh"... etc. Also, there are "silent letters" and different ways of spelling to make the same sounds... etc. Unless the person is fluent in English, he or she would have a hard time pronouncing the names. Also, why should everyone learn English just so they can read names of foriegn places and people.
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holyman -
Quote:
Originally Posted by wix
I wonder why it is even necessary to transliterate foreign names into Chinese in this day and age. Why not simply write them in the roman alphabet?
wad about asking foreigners to simply write down chinese names in chinese characters and make them read like any chinese? equally difficult isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by confucious
...but one of my best friends who works in Washington DC has a Chinese name which uses the exact same characters, but in a different order (Wei Zhi Ming) I also took notice of Joanne's Chinese name and can relate to what she experienced. Many names given to foreign people or places by Chinese people often seem to be far from being the best syllables that sound close to the transliteration. There seems to be a reluctance among Chinese to use certain syllables and characters and I haven't found much justification for it. That's why we're stuck with Jianada for Canada instead of the obvious Ka-na-da and Hawaii comes out sounding like Xiaweiyi instead of Ha-wai-yi. I would love to go toe to toe with the person in China responsible for coming up with the Chinese names for foreign celebrities and places. I know my Chinese name creations would always sound more like the original foreign word and they would just stand there and disagree with me for the sake of argument. "Xiaweiyi!" Give me a break!
thats because after the 1840 opium war, foreigners are allowed to arrive in china thru a few 'trading' ports, and canton is one of them. naturally a lot of foreign names were translated from cantonese then reported to the central govt in beijing. for america, 'ya-mei-li-jian hezhong guo' is united states(or federated states, 'hezhong guo') of 'ah-mui-li-gan' (american). hawaii is 'xia-wei-yi' cos 'xia-wei-yi' is 'ha-wai-yi' in cantonese. on the other hand, 'amoy' is 'xiamen' cos in fujian dialects, xiamen is 'eh meng', foreigners got it a bit twisted and it became 'amoy'.
wix -
Quote:
Originally Posted by holyman
'amoy' is 'xiamen' cos in fujian dialects, xiamen is 'eh meng', foreigners got it a bit twisted and it became 'amoy'.
Actually Amoy comes from Minbei or the Fuzhou dialect. Nasal sounds make it difficult for for foreigners to pronounce it in Minnan.
I agree that many of these names originated from Cantonese. These days there are often different names for places or countries in Taiwan, Hong Kong and China.
Interestingly New York in Minnan sounds remarkably similar to the sound in English. pinyin: niu yue and in Minnan it is pronounced niu-iok. I'm sure there are other similar examples, particularly from Cantonese.
ChouDoufu -
I always find it interesting how the Chinese try to add meaning in the names of of foreigners. Like at one point the Chinese press changed Bin Laden's name so that it had the character for "egg" which doesn't have good connotations... I don't think you can expect foreign countries to call people by their true names, though it would be nice. Every country does the best it can within the confines of their language.
Anonymous -
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChouDoufu
Like at one point the Chinese press changed Bin Laden's name so that it had the character for "egg" which doesn't have good connotations...
Where did you see this at? The only translation I've seen in the newspapers is "Bin La Ding"
holyman -
some place translated that as 'bin la dan(egg)', some as 'bin la deng'.
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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing Chinese Idiom Rally II. Home New Posts
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nnt -
Todo esto es vacío 满纸空言 man3 zhi3 kong1 yan2
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Barbara -
non capisco l'Espagnol and, anyway, what you’re saying is rather 言之无物 yan2 zhi1 wu2 wu4
nnt -
kritik? 物议沸腾 wu4 yi4 fei4 teng2
Barbara -
Eso sí que no! just getting a bit dizzy 腾云驾雾 teng2 yun2 jia4 wu4
nnt -
You've forgotten a ¡ :!: : ¡Eso sí que no! Never mind, everything is clear now :idea: , as you understand Spanish and I German: 雾散日出 wu4 san4 ri4 (Japan ) chu1
careful that this change isn't going to turn into 新瓶装旧酒 xin1 ping2 yhuang1 jiu4 jiu3
nnt -
Wine get better with age, and does not need publicity: 酒好人自来 jiu3 hao3 ren2 zi4 lai2
Barbara -
right, on the other hand it's a hell of a lot of trouble to get it in the first place 来之不易 lai2 zhi1 bu4 yi4
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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing Husband Home New Posts
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roddy -
Zhangfu and Qizi are definitely used here in Beijing. I'd say airen is maybe a bit more common than laogong / laopo as well (then talking to third parties, anyway. Not sure what they call each other in private.)
Roddy
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smithsgj -
Quest absolutely and I qualify what *I* said: zhang and qi are the formal document forms in Taiwan too.
Also Roddy mentioned in private. My mother-in-law used to *address* her husband as Zhang. I think he used to call her Zi or sth cos it was the last bit of her given name. All women of her age have Zi as the last bit of their middle name: it's a Japanese thing.
Airen?!?! pmsl... Do they still use 'neiren' ever -- like "her indoors"?
Quest -
内子？That used to mean wife. 爱人is used often to mention your spouse to other people.
skylee -
內子/外子 are only used when the conversation has to be very polite. Some older folks still use "我(的)女人" to refer to their wives.
I think 愛人 is never used in HK to mention one's spouse to other people (unless when joking). We say 老公/老婆 (informally) or 先生/太太 (less informally).
pazu -
I used to know a guy who would prefer to call her wife as, "我個乞衣婆", and his sons as "我班乞衣仔".
so lit it means "my beggar wife" and "my beggar sons"... I know it would be a custom for some people to diminish oneself for introduction, e.g. (小的草字上建下華, little one like me, has a "grass" name of Jian followed by Hua.), but it was weired to my ears to hear somebody calling his family "beggars".
skylee -
To give an even humbler feel, one could call his wife "拙荊" or even "賤內". I wonder if there are similar terms to refer to one's husband.
smithsgj -
Somehow I doubt it.
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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing Chinese Idiom Rally Home New Posts
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Barbara -
sorry, I seem to have gallopped into a dead-end ...
ok, let's hope that we follow the "right" cause 马首是瞻
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nnt -
... not a dead end, just a crossroads , because when whe hear the clttering of horse hoofs 蹄声笃笃 ti2 sheng1 du3 du3 , we have to 瞻前顾后 zhan1 qian2 gu4 hou4 to choose one direction...
Barbara -
and then unhesitatingly ... 后发制人
nnt -
...Alas, you can trust nobody, and the human heart is unfathomable 人心难测定 ren2 xin1 nan2 ce4
nnt -
...Sorry for the typing mistake (fifth character ), but as it seems to be a real dead end, let's try another one, to cheer up everyone:人心振奋 ren2 xin1 zhen4 fen4
Barbara -
and he sits there 左思右想 (another crossroad turned up, couldn't take your 定 you so conveniently placed for me, would have been cheating ) and starts to 想入非非 ...
nnt -
...is daydreaming so unusual 非同小可fei1 tong2 xiao3 ke3?
Barbara -
is daydreaming to the point of 可歌可泣 ... but 泣不成声 ...
nnt -
even if it's soundless, it's still heard by Heaven: 声闻于天 sheng1 wen2 yu2 tian1
Barbara -
and heaven, of course, is said to be 天公地道
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> Chinese Culture > Music Cui Jian in Wuhan Home New Posts
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akdn -
Sorry this might be a bit late. But, only just found out today. Cui Jian has a gig in Wuhan this Friday night (June 3). His official site has more info about it
I'm not a huge fan, although the new album certainly is interestingly different from anything else I've heard him do. I got a ticket nevertheless. Should be cool. Live music nearly always is, and Wuhan doesn't get much of it (apart from two days last year when Andy Lao and Jay Zhou played back-to-back nights in the football stadium...)
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> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > Adsotrans.com Forum prizes, prizes, prizes! (obscure word of the month competition) Home New Posts
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trevelyan -
After deep deliberation and a few beers with Roddy, it gives me great pleasure to formally announce Adso's first "obscure word of the month" competition. This prize-laden contest will be won by the Chinese-learning superstar who -- by months end -- has fended off the stiff competition from the laowai community and successfully added the most obscure yet technically correct Chinese word to the Adso database.
Attention translators working on monographs on Chinese Zinc standards: this contest is for you!
The prize up for grabs this month is a VCD of Richie Jen's greatest hits, chock full of smash hits. Put this puppy on heavy rotation in your DVD player and in no time you too will begin to enjoy it and begin subjecting others to it. The prize will be gladly mailed to overseas winners, while anyone in Beijing can sub it for a healthy 12-pack of the traditional Chinese Yanjing medicinal brew.
Entering is as easy as submitting content using the Quick Add form. Just remember to mark your name in the Contributor box. I'll pick out the most obscure entries when updating the database at the end of month, and Adso users will vote for the winner. If you have a specific entry you want everyone to vote on, post it below. In the interests of setting the bar high, I'm going to make my own contribution now -- the name of the new Prime Minister of Samoa:
图伊拉埃帕·萨伊莱莱·马利埃莱额奥伊 Tuila’epa Sailele Malielegaoi
And if I win, you all get nothing.... Nothing!
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Dennis -
索沃耶利里坡那罗讷特罗里莫哭卡斯特罗。 Suo wo ye li li po na luo ne te luo li mo ku ka si te luo. A transliteration in Hanzi and Pinyin of the Toki Pona word soweli li pona lon telo li moku kasi telo meaning Manatee
Greetings from Dennis
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> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools ICLP - Taiwan Home New Posts
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weixiaoma -
It's interesting to see a discussion here about the only two Chinese schools that Blakemore Freeman Fellowship students can attend, ICLP and IUP. There is a comparison of the two institutions. It appears that overall, ICLP is a bit better, but for some students in some situations IUP may be the better choice.
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StealthyBurrito -
weixiaoma, that was a great article. Thanks for the link.
PaulRoberts -
Having been in Beijing, Shanghai, and Taipei, gotta say that one of the best things about Taiwan is that it's warm and the air is relatively clean. No dust storms, no thousands of factories, and if you want to get away, there's the amazingly beautiful East Coast just 1-3 hours away from Taipei. According to Wikipedia, the International Chinese Language Program (ICLP) aka the former IUP is now a part of National Taiwan University. I was at ICLP for one year and never knew that ICLP wasn't a part of NTU--there's tons of opportunities to explore there with student groups and you can even sit in on classes. Having lived in both China and Taiwan, I gotta say that there's a huge advantage to living in a free society where all sorts of viewpoints are aired out and considered. At ICLP, my Chinese went from basically saying short sentences and knowing maybe 500-1000 characters to being able to read editorials, newspapers, listen to the news, and have deep conversations with people on anything from politics to startups. I still work on my Chinese everyday and my Chinese still needs improvement, but it is vastly improved.
mi3gai4rui4 -
I really recommend this blog about ICLP.
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> Chinese Culture > Society 中國人 -- what does it mean? Home New Posts
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Anonymous -
[edited]Comments on moderation to me via PM please. Roddy[/edited]
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akdn -
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulong
What exactly provokes the Indonesians? I just personally feel that not speaking the same language or come from the same cultural background is enough reason to hate.
In Indonesia, Chinese are generally perceived to be unaffected by economic difficulty, and indeed may even be blamed for it. This is all the provocation a desperate person needs.
I mentioned the language point to show how barriers can come between people of different cultures, and how these barriers can prevent reconciliation.
By the way, Chinese are by no means the only ethnic group in Indonesia who prefer to use their own language. There are many, many, many... each staking their own claims to cultures distinct from the overall 'Indonesian' nationality the government promotes.
A side note: You mentioned laws. Indonesia isn't exactly praised by the international community for it's upstanding legal system!
roddy -
Quote:
I just personally feel that not speaking the same language or come from the same cultural background is enough reason to hate.
Often it isn't - economic factors play a big part. A different ethnic group which is considered wealthy, or to be 'stealing jobs' will encounter more hatred.
Roddy [edited in(oh, my edit button's getting plenty of use tonight)]'considered wealthy' isn't actually accurate enough. Wealthy, and 'different enough', and exclusive (in that they only deal with members of their own culture and don't 'spread the wealth'), plus living in a society where there are people poor enough to be angry. That's not a very good description, but it's a long time since I studied this[/edit]
I remember actually reading this article at the time it was published. The reason the topic was being discussed in 2002, was that Megawati (newly-elected president of Indonesia then) had just announced that Chinese New Year was to be an officially-recognised national holiday. The Chinese had long petitioned for this.
I was born in a Western country. I am as white as freshly fallen snow. I have lived in China and other Asian countries for many years. I am a resident of China. I speak Chinese moderately well. I eat Chinese food. I watch Chinese TV. I have Chinese friends. I have been to more places in China than most people. When people ask me what country I am from, I say China. I culturally identify with China. I am Chinese, no?
2 things. first the idea of 'chinese' as being culturally related to china regardless of race is the older concept. after 1943 its probably different. second, to be culturally related to china usually means 2 things in ancient times. u dress like them and u behave like them. its not just like u eat some chinese food, speak a little chinese and have a few chinese frens.
the idea of overseas chinese are citizens of china is there bcos before 1943 all chinese are not allowed to migrate and become citizens of other countries, particularly western countries and their colonies(which means the entire world outside china). this ban/discrimination was not from the chinese govt but from western countries. so therefore all chinese, mainland or overses, study, travel or sold as coolies in other countries, have only one identity: chinese citizens. after the chinese won a major battle against the japanese in 1941(or 42, can't remember properly) at wuhan, hubei province when the rest of the world was suffering defeat from the axis, america first declared the lift on this ban and agreed a loan to china in support of them fighting the japanese, gradually followed by the other countries. so after the war chinese are allowed to migrate, and thus they can claim themselves as the citizens of their residing country instead of china. but for the older folks who were born before the war, this idea never change. they still see themselves as chinese citizens.
in ancient china, yes, to be chinese will require u to be well versed in the language, dress like them and follow their way of life. therefore since han dynasty there are ppl from middle east, huns and other minorities who served in the chinese courts and are all considered chinese. in western han dynasty, a lot of generals were originally huns, and so are some court officials.
skylee -
Thanks holyman, I like your post (I have started to dislike this forum).
Quest -
Quote:
(I have started to dislike this forum).
Did all the uninformative and childish arguments make you dislike this forum? I have observed the debate for a couple of days and finally decided to join in. I am sorry if the debate lowered the quality of this forum. I would like to apologize. You are cool skylee, please dont let a few posts discourage you from coming here.
holyman -
Quote:
What exactly provokes the Indonesians? I just personally feel that not speaking the same language or come from the same cultural background is enough reason to hate. At least it isn't in the United States.
i think most people got the whole picture wrong. indonesia was in good terms with china since the 1950's, during sukarno's time. china used to loan money and provide aids to indonesia. then suharto took over and start cultural 'cleansing', he was afraid that the chinese will run the country like the dutch. indonesia was a dutch colony for more than 300yrs. they wanted badly to rule themselves. the chinese were like less than 10% of the population. chinese were being penalised, all chinese publications were not allowed, all chinese had to have an indonesian name, and all chinese festivals, holidays, religions etc are prohibited. ppl suspected to be communists, or sympathized with communists, were either jailed or secretly executed. that would be like 1/2 million deaths and m.i.a.. the chinese then became 'cocooned' to themselves. before that they interacted more with the locals.
had the indons over-reacted? maybe, maybe not, depends on which side u take. think about that, the chinese were taking up like 7-8% of the total indon population, but besides those siezed by the ruling party, corrupted officials, the military etc, the chinese controlled like 90% of the remaining money. think, if a minority race in your country controlled 90% of what is left for the population, how would u see them? if a minority race, like the mogols or manchus or tibetians, controlled 90% of the money in china, how would the ethnic han ppl react, esp when there was a economic crisis? but of course, why the chinese controlled the economy and not the indons, that's another topic. for now i can only say its cultural differences.
was indonesia always anti-china? on the surface it seemed so. but as we all know, indon bought submarines from russia long time ago like china did. too bad they didnt have the spare parts, neither they had the blueprints and specs of the parts. so where did they eventually get to replace those parts after some wear and tear? the choice is clear. of course this was never in the open. and did the middlemen got any commissions, is another mystery.
akdn -
Quote:
Originally Posted by holyman
chinese were being penalised, all chinese publications were not allowed, all chinese had to have an indonesian name, and all chinese festivals, holidays, religions etc are prohibited. ppl suspected to be communists, or sympathized with communists, were either jailed or secretly executed. that would be like 1/2 million deaths and m.i.a.. the chinese then became 'cocooned' to themselves. before that they interacted more with the locals.
Yeah, good points there. Also, the study of Mandarin was outlawed during those years. I hope I wasn't suggesting that the Chinese had 'cocooned' themselves for no reason!
Clearly, it's a long process to right the wrongs of the Suharto regine, and to bring these communities back together. It needs action from both sides. Laws that discriminate against the Chinese, and fuel bad-feeling, are being repealed (The study of Mandarin was legalised around four years ago, Chinese publications are readily available there, and Chinese New Year is an official national holiday, to take some examples). If the Chinese community stepped out of their 'cocoon' they may find the welcome warmer than they expect. At least, I would like to think so.
akdn -
To Kulong, and other overseas Chinese:
How do you feel about the expression 华侨人？Does it carry any any special positive or negative connotations for you? Which do you prefer to use: 华侨人 or 中国人?
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Ian_Lee -
Todai is a popular Japanese seafood buffet restaurant chain that springs across the US with its concentration mostly in Southern California.
It has also opened a branch in Hong Kong and that is the only Todai outside US and Canada.
They offer such perks like free meal if you go dine on your birthday. They even have waitresses coming by your table to sing birthday song.
But lately I seldom go dine at Todai even though it is kind of a bargain considering the variety of food that they offer at such price (crab leg and lobster and ..... for US$25 at dinner).
Once when the restaurant was really busy with dozens of customers waiting in front of the crab leg serving table, I saw them opening boxes of crab legs and unload those frozen food right on the table with ice attached on the legs.
When I devoured them, somehow I had a feeling that I returned to the stone age when our ancestors ate unprocessed food right after hunting!
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xuezhongwen -
one more thing you may notice at Todai is a lot of the waiters/waitresses all speak Chinese, at least that's true in the San Francisco Bay Area.
TSkillet -
ugh. . . todai. I can't think of a worse trend than all of the Chinese-owned and operated sushi places here in the US - not only todai, but here in houston, you'd be hard pressed to find a japanese owner or chef in any of the many sushi restaurants.
suffice to say, I try to keep my sushi excursions to when I can go LA, San Francisco, or New York.
bhchao -
Quote:
ugh. . . todai. I can't think of a worse trend than all of the Chinese-owned and operated sushi places here in the US -
I agree. You can get full in Todai, but the quality cannot compare to the authentic Japanese food found elsewhere.
TSkillet, have you been to Nobu in New York?
TSkillet -
I haven't been to Nobu . . .yet. . . maybe when I pay off my mortgage or something. Heheh. Diverting from the topic at hand - if I'm going to spend $200 per person on a meal in New York - I'd be at Per Se.
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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening Why Do You Learn Chinese?(ple help me with the survey) Home New Posts
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TSkillet -
probably because my parents were always speaking to me in Chinese.
30 year old Houston Texas resident who previously lived in Hong Kong, Guangzhou China, Berkeley California and Los Angeles California.
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kentsuarez -
Why? I love languages, and love really difficult challenges. So when I fell in love with a Sichuan girl, that was the only added impetus necessary.
General background? Hispanic (Mexican-American), raised as "white" American, lived 1 yr. in Madrid, 5 in Mexico, Spanish is 2nd language, then German, Mandarin, some Cantonese, and Thai. Only fluent in English, Spanish and Mandarin. Unfinished PhD in Psychology. Serious interest in Chinese paleography and etymology, calligraphy, handicrafts and DIY, art, culture, and Asian tomboys. Still looking for a new one. Am 42, living in Taipei.
Claw -
1. Original reason: So that I am able to talk to the rest of my family. Current reason (though original reason still applies): I find Chinese grammar and comparative linguistics so interesting now that I have acquired the knowledge. 2. I was born in Hong Kong, and moved to the U.S. when I was very young, so my Chinese ability wasn't very good. I originally wanted to learn Cantonese (the dialect that the rest of my family speaks) when I got into college, but the class required that you take a year of Mandarin beforehand. So I took Mandarin for a year but then the professor who taught Cantonese went on sabbatical for two years so I never got the chance to take it. I found Mandarin interesting enough so I continued to take it for the next two years until I graduated from college. I learned Cantonese by myself on the side using my original Cantonese knowledge (I've always been able to listen but not speak very well) in conjunction with the new Mandarin and written Chinese knowledge I had acquired.
perjp -
1. It seemed like a good idea when I started out...
Actually, it's a long story involving what is basically a series of coincidences. I think it can probably tracked back to a childhood involving too many Jackie Chan movies.
2. I'm a computer science major, when I finished my master's degree I wanted to try something completely different, and ended up in Shanghai.
taibeihong -
Original reason: I wanted to learn a new and challenging language that'd be profitable career-wise (I was studying International Relations) and, at college (in Mexico City), Japanese lessons were full (and I figured there were too many people who already spoke good Japanese), Korean lessons had too few students (which meant the course could be discontinued) and Chinese had few students (giving me a competitive advantage) but enough to keep the course going.
Present reason: I studied Chinese in Beijing for two years, and worked in Shanghai for 7 months, and I LOVED LIVING IN CHINA, and there's the possibility I'll move back, so I want to improve my Chinese as much as I can to impress my boss and coworkers (who won't speak Chinese) and to enjoy the friendship of Chinese people who are not necessarily comfortable speaking in English.
Background: Male, Mexican. When I started I was 23, still in college, and spoke advanced Russian, English, German and Italian. Now I'm 31, a diplomat in Beirut, and speak good French and some Lebanese Arabic, plus a bit of Shanghainese.
IVYtony -
wow, you guys anwers most are awesome! I like seeing that jumping like a garrila
IVYtony -
well, my reason:
I was born in China and I had to learn Chinese, no other choice ;) just kidding
background: I have got my Bachelor in Science and now I'm pursing a PhD in Molecular Biology in US.
age: 24, getting old......
IVYtony -
marcopolo79's answer impressed me most!! haha............
you're the man!!!
holger -
a) 我太太是北京人· 我们互相教语言·
b) coming from intellectual nowhere i decided to jettison that old small-world, narrow-minded eurocentric mentality i grew up with in order to prove myself that i was really the booby moron noodle chucklehead some coevals made be believe to be.
c) off topic but i must mention that all parents, regardless of what features or qualities they have should be banned on one lonely isle for reeducation.
CordelialiCious -
1. Cuz I want to...as simple as that. I'm chinese and I can speak it fine grammar-wise but had never gotten the chance to learn to write it. So yeah...I just wanna get involved with it more.
2. Hm I guess I sorta answered this question above, but I'm just a teenager learning it for my own good for no particular reason
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这个今晚才译的纪伯伦的一首诗ＳＯＮＧ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＷＡＶＥ，我发 一个论坛上了． 有空请多指正．我没有花很多时间去润色， The strong shore is my beloved 我爱恋着那坚固的海岸 And I am his sweetheart. 我是他的心肝宝贝 We are at last united by love, and 我俩因爱而结合 Then the moon draws me from him. 皎月却总拉我离他而去 I go to him in haste and depart 聚匆匆 Reluctantly, with many 散依依 Little farewells. 多少无奈短别离
I steal swiftly from behind the 悄悄地匆匆地从那蓝色的海平线 Blue horizon to cast the silver of 我把银色泡沫撒在那他的金沙上 We blend in melted brilliance. 我们在灿烂中融为一体
I quench his thirst and submerge his 我排解他的饥渴,融入他的心扉 Heart; he softens my voice and subdues 他让我的声音变温柔,减轻我的暴戾 My temper. At dawn I recite the rules of love upon 晨曦中我在他的耳畔吟诵爱之曲 His ears, and he embraces me longingly. 他热切地拥抱着我 At eventide I sing to him the song of 潮汐时我吟唱希望之歌 Hope, and then print smooth hisses upon 在他的脸颊印上我温柔的唇语 His face; I am swift and fearful, but he Is quiet, patient, and thoughtful. 但他是安详,沉静.平和 His Broad bosom soothes my restlessness. 他的宽容平息我的狂燥
As the tide comes we caress each other, 潮来我们彼此亲吻 When it withdraws, I drop to his feet in
Prayer. 潮退我膜拜在他脚踝 Many times have I danced around mermaids 多少次我在美人鱼畔起舞翩翩 As they rose from the depths and rested 她们从深海浮现 Upon my crest to watch the stars; 栖歇在我的头顶仰望穹星 Many times have I heard lovers complain 多少次我聆听恋人们的牢骚 Of their smallness, and I helped them to sigh. 我为他们轻叹 Many times have I teased the great rocks 多少次我戏弄那大岩石 And fondled them with a smile, but never 含笑地抚摸他们 Have I received laughter from them; 却从末听到他们的笑声 Many times have I lifted drowning souls 多少次我托起那些淹死的灵魂 And carried them tenderly to my beloved 温柔地送他们到我热恋的海岸 Shore. He gives them strength as he 他给予他们力量正如我给予他 Takes mine.
Many times have I stolen gems from the 多少次我从深海窃得珍宝 Depths and presented them to my beloved 献给我所热恋的海岸 Shore. He takes them in silence, but still 他默默地收下仍给我一如既往的欢迎
I give fro he welcomes me ever.
In the heaviness of night, when all 夜深人静, Creatures seek the ghost of Slumber, 万物进入梦乡I Sit up, singing at one time and sighing 我静坐时唱时叹 At another. I am awake always. 总是一夜无眠
Alas! Sleeplessness has weakened me! 啊, 失眠让我变孱弱 But I am a lover, and the truth of love Is strong. 但我在爱恋,爱的真谛是坚强 I may be weary, but I shall never die. 我或许会孱弱,但我永不死
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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening when is using 好得很 ok? Home New Posts
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geek_frappa -
when is a good time to use 好得很 and when is a good time NOT to use 好得很? i want to use it sometimes, but i just don't know when...
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BeijingSlacker -
don't think this is a tricky phrase.Can you give us some examples?
geek_frappa -
How do you say, "that is a good idea" using hao de hen? do you mean that i can treat hao de hen like a stative verb?
Xiao Yu -
好得很's "好" is referring more to someone/something's condition rather than mood or atmosphere, so you have to be asked about someone or something's condition to respond with this phrase. Like how's your mood, how's your new puppy doing...etc. "很好" is a more common and safe way to respond posivitely to any question, though.
I'd say the difference between "好得很!" and "很好!" would be that you can use the first in a sarcastic way without meaning to easier than you can with the second way. It's kinda subtle; like the difference between "Just great!" and "Great!" For instance, if someone asks his friend how his relationship with his girlfriend is doing, knowing full well they hate each other, the guy can answer, "Just great; thanks for caring"; "好得很,多谢你关心" and it can easily sound sarcastic.
That's my attempt at an explanation...correct me if I'm wrong, people
skylee -
Quote:
How do you say, "that is a good idea" using hao de hen?
-> 那個主意好得很！
ced1zh -
I can consider in some situation 好得很 can be used properly: somebody ask u for a dinner or invite u to attend a party, and u accept it without being modest, say that. (better to add 啊) never try to use that when ur chinese friend say some 客气话(sth. they really dont wanna do)
blackadder -
I don't think 好的很 is a very good Chinese. 很好 is more likely to be used.
Tsunku -
There is nothing wrong with 好得很! It is perfectly acceptable Chinese. I hear it said a lot here (I actually was under the impression it was kind of regional until I read this thread), but usually in an overly enthusiastic, playful manner (sometimes sarcastic too like Xiao Yu said). Actually, I've heard quite a few adjectives use 得很 in this way.
blackadder -
It's acceptable but not perfect Chinese, as we say you are speaking English-Chinese, as not the perfect Chinese. 非常好 may be the alternative way but def not 好得很! If you happen to have chance to ask any Chinese people out there, they would tell you the same thing.
Tsunku -
It isn't English-Chinese! I hear this phrase from Chinese speakers all the time. If it were English-Chinese, why would Chinese native speakers spontaneously say this on their own? I live in China, so of course I have the chance to ask people, but I don't need to ask, because I've heard it spoken before. What leads you to believe that this phrase is somehow bad Chinese?
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liuzhou -
I used the Shenzhen Metro yesterday. Efficient, clean and cheap.
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cdn_in_bj -
It seems that the opening of line 5 and lowering of the fares has really helped to take some cars off the roads. I've noticed this week that traffic is lighter and my morning commute time has dropped significantly. Whereas before it used to take me 35-40 minutes to drive to work, it now only takes 25 minutes.
I think this will have a snowball effect, as buses will be able to get to their destinations faster and encourage even more people to take the bus.
And before you guys slam me for being enviro-unfriendly, I'm planning to move somewhere closer to work soon and walk/bike instead of drive.
skylee -
The two railway companies in HK will be merged into one on 2.12.2007. Basically it is the Mass Transit Railway (MTR, the subway) taking over the 100-year old Kowloon Canton Railway (KCR). There will be a total of 11 lines, including the light rail in West New Territories and the Airport Express. Fares will be reduced because of, theoratically, synergy ......
Those who own stocks of the MTR should be happy about this development. The MTR is also the manager / builder of some Shanghai / Beijing subway lines IIRC.
Bummer that means now I can't use KCR and MTR to distinguish which line I want to take...
MartinF -
cdn_in_bj,
I take the bus in Beijing now, or a taxi if it's late. I am supposed to be getting my motorcycle soon-ish. But I'm like you and I want to be within walking/biking distance of work. So I'm looking for another apartment now close to work.
I'm not sure what I'll do with my motorcycle. Maybe just save it for weekend rides. Not sure yet.
Martin
cdn_in_bj -
Quote:
I am supposed to be getting my motorcycle soon-ish.
Is this the bike that you had while in the US? Have you looked into how to get it registered/licensed here?
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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening Does anybody know this website? Home New Posts
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Haizi -
I am asking this for a netter. Following is his/her original post: ================== I STUMBLED ACROSS A WEB SITE THAT AMONG OTHER THINGS GAVE A VISUAL/GRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION OF THE INITIALS AND THEN ALLOWED ME TO RECORD MY VOICE AND HAVE IT DISPLAYED SUPERIMPOSED ONE THE ORGINAL.
UNFORTUNATELY, I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FIND THIS SITE AGAIN.
IF ANYONE KNOWS OF THIS OR ANOTHER SIMILAR SITE, I WOULD BE GRATEFUL. I REALLY WANT TO DO MY BEST TO LEARN HOW TO PRONOUNCE CHINESE PROPERLY. ==================
Please help. Thanks.
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roddy -
Welcome back, Haizi.
I can’t think of any website like that, and it seems unlikely – you would have to record the sound on your computer and then upload it. Not impossible, but troublesome. CD-rom courses will let you do that, but I don’t know of any website.
Haizi -
I think in theory such a website is possible. If one can make an applet that does the recording and sending the sound clip back to the server in the background, then we can have features like what the guy have described. And I know this won't be an easy programming task.
Have you seen the puzzle section I newly added to my website? What do you think of it? Is playing the puzzle equally effective but more interesting in comparison with using flashcards?
roddy -
Hmmm, or could flash do that? If you wanted to make one, you might get some help in the Computing forum.
Haven't had a look at your puzzles yet, will look later if I can.
Roddy
geek_frappa -
i did research a while back in polyphonic voice recognition. it's been a while so my memory is blurry..
this site had a product here that did something like that.. but it's not working right now... http://www.venturetech.com/
maybe this will give you another lead to follow..
Hero Doug -
Wouldn't JavaScript be able to do that? I now when writing an Email with Gmail it automatically uploads my message to the server and saves it as a draft as I'm writing.
I'm not sure if it can do this with audio though.
Lugubert -
Quote:
A WEB SITE THAT AMONG OTHER THINGS GAVE A VISUAL/GRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION OF THE INITIALS AND THEN ALLOWED ME TO RECORD MY VOICE AND HAVE IT DISPLAYED SUPERIMPOSED ONE THE ORGINAL.
I've been thinking along those lines, to improve my tones. It happened too frequently that I built up for example a tone 2 rather from my shoes and up, and my indigenous tongxue told me, "No, not 4."
It doesn't have to be automatic in any way, just let me have a pre-recorded sentence or even syllable Fourier analyzed to get the formants, and then do the same thing for my recorded speech, and display both sets of curves. Side by side would be OK, superimposed of course even better.
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> Extras > Other cultures and language "hello" expression other than "hello" Home New Posts
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HashiriKata -
Quote:
I think "No complaints." sounds a little depressed. "I'm doing great" or "I'm Great" or "Great" sound *to me* a bit over the top.
Since English is the mother tongue of people in many countries and there are phrases that are common in some places but not in others. Therefore, if you're from a region where some phrases are not commonly used, you tend to look at them more analytically and literally, rather than just as part of a greeting ritual. When I first moved to Northern Ireland (where "I'm great" and "No complaints" are very commonly used), I had the same feeling as the quoted above; but just a few years later, I always came out quite naturally with "I'm great" or "No complaints" and saw no difference between the two. On hearing either of these, if you still think it sounds funny, you're probably not part of the local community. On the other hand, you may want to use what the local people use just to identify yourself as part of them. "I'm fine, thank you" may sound then just a bit too stand-offish! The problem is of course, when you move to another country but still carry with you the same habit of saying "I'm great", you may sound a bit over the top to others.
Quote:
Looks like everyone knows it. I actually have never used "你好吗” as greeting in my life.
Some phrases are more often used by foreigners (or to foreigners by native speakers) than by native speakers among themselves. I suspect it is the case with this phrase because it matches well with "How are you?" and the like (Of course, we shouldn't discount regional and individual variations even among native speakers.) This reminds me of "Sayonara" in Japanese. Although commonly used by foreigners, Japanese only use it to foreigners (as they think this is what foregners expect, or understand more easily). They only use it among themselves very rarely and on fairly special occasions (eg. for a long and formal farewell)
Quote:
What about 马马虎虎? Is that uncommon in China? That's common in Taiwan.
I guess this may be an import from Japan (given the fact that it's only common in Taiwan and that young Taiwanese are very fond of things Japanese). The Japanese word is just "ma ma" (まあまあ) and has many meanings, including that of "so so, not too bad". (The Japanese version is never written in kanji and the "horse tiger" thing is purely a Chinese innovation.)
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BeijingSlacker -
Quote:
I think "No complaints." sounds a little depressed.
"I'm doing great" or "I'm Great" or "Great" sound *to me* a bit over the top.
The above are just typos.
Quote:
"How goes it (with you)?" and "How's things?"
For these two, I did mean "How goes" and "How things"
BeijingSlacker -
Quote:
guess this may be an import from Japan (given the fact that it's only common in Taiwan and that young Taiwanese are very fond of things Japanese). The Japanese word is just "ma ma" (まあまあ) and has many meanings, including that of "so so, not too bad". (The Japanese version is never written in kanji and the "horse tiger" thing is purely a Chinese innovation.)
If I recall correctly, it's from Manchu, not Japanese.
We do use 马马虎虎 in Beijing, but not nearly as often as Chinese learners do. Among the people I know, the most often used are "还成" "还行" "凑活" or "还那样儿吧"。
A line from Cuijian's song 混子:
白天出门忙活 晚上出门转悠 碰见熟人打招呼“怎么样”“咳, 凑合”
Quote:
Quote: I actually have never used "你好吗”as greeting in my life.
This is quite extreme. I use it from time to time.
In Mandarin or Cantonese?
skylee -
In Cantonese, to people whom I have not spoken to or met for a long time.
yonglan -
Quote:
Originally Posted by HashiriKata
I think "No complaints." sounds a little depressed. "I'm doing great" or "I'm Great" or "Great" sound *to me* a bit over the top.
Since English is the mother tongue of people in many countries and there are phrases that are common in some places but not in others. Therefore, if you're from a region where some phrases are not commonly used, you tend to look at them more analytically and literally, rather than just as part of a greeting ritual. When I first moved to Northern Ireland (where "I'm great" and "No complaints" are very commonly used), I had the same feeling as the quoted above; but just a few years later, I always came out quite naturally with "I'm great" or "No complaints" and saw no difference between the two. On hearing either of these, if you still think it sounds funny, you're probably not part of the local community. On the other hand, you may want to use what the local people use just to identify yourself as part of them.
You know what happens when we assume? Both "No complaints" and "I'm Great" are very common in the US, where I'm from. So, your analysis should be applied elsewhere, methinks. And anyway, I was very clear about making a discalimer at the beginning of my post to try (unsuccesfully, it would seem) to fend off bickering. You could simply disagree
Quote:
Quote: Looks like everyone knows it. I actually have never used "你好吗” as greeting in my life.
Some phrases are more often used by foreigners (or to foreigners by native speakers) than by native speakers among themselves. I suspect it is the case with this phrase because it matches well with "How are you?" and the like (Of course, we shouldn't discount regional and individual variations even among native speakers.) This reminds me of "Sayonara" in Japanese. Although commonly used by foreigners, Japanese only use it to foreigners (as they think this is what foregners expect, or understand more easily). They only use it among themselves very rarely and on fairly special occasions (eg. for a long and formal farewell)
Again, please see my post. Taiwanese occasionally use it amongst themselves -- and actually have not used it with me (as far as I can recall).
Quote:
Quote: What about 马马虎虎? Is that uncommon in China? That's common in Taiwan.
I guess this may be an import from Japan (given the fact that it's only common in Taiwan and that young Taiwanese are very fond of things Japanese). The Japanese word is just "ma ma" (まあまあ) and has many meanings, including that of "so so, not too bad". (The Japanese version is never written in kanji and the "horse tiger" thing is purely a Chinese innovation.)
Ugh
yonglan -
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeijingSlacker
Quote: "How goes it (with you)?" and "How's things?"
For these two, I did mean "How goes" and "How things"
In Canada, eh? Ask some Canadians. I've known plenty, and I think those two (above) are also typos.
yonglan -
Where is Lu (who was on this thread) or another Taiwanese? I want to know why they occasionally say 'ni hao ma'. The most common Taiwanese dialect greeting seems to be 'lee-huh' (which is ni hao). Can some Taiwanese explain this, please?
HashiriKata -
Yonglan, Please just say what you'd like to say and in the same way let others say what they want to say. Why do you have to see what people say as somehow directly connected to you personally and then tell them what to do? The world doesn't have to go round with you in the centre, does it? When I was writing my earlier post, I had no particular person in mind, so do take it easy!
(I'm referring to your 3rd post above this one)
yonglan -
Please look at your post again, which I've even quoted for you again. You quoted me, and only me, directly. You then proceeded to make a very condescending commentary, plainly suggesting (stating, really) that I am judging phrases that aren't common where I live. Those are common phrases where I live. You could simply say that you don't find it that way.
Quote:
Quote:
I think "No complaints." sounds a little depressed. "I'm doing great" or "I'm Great" or "Great" sound *to me* a bit over the top.
Since English is the mother tongue of people in many countries and there are phrases that are common in some places but not in others. Therefore, if you're from a region where some phrases are not commonly used, you tend to look at them more analytically and literally, rather than just as part of a greeting ritual. When I first moved to Northern Ireland (where "I'm great" and "No complaints" are very commonly used), I had the same feeling as the quoted above; but just a few years later, I always came out quite naturally with "I'm great" or "No complaints" and saw no difference between the two. On hearing either of these, if you still think it sounds funny, you're probably not part of the local community. On the other hand, you may want to use what the local people use just to identify yourself as part of them. "I'm fine, thank you" may sound then just a bit too stand-offish! The problem is of course, when you move to another country but still carry with you the same habit of saying "I'm great", you may sound a bit over the top to others.
HashiriKata -
I had my say and I suppose it's your prerogative to interpret things whichever way you choose.
Cheers,
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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing 树挪死,人挪活 Home New Posts
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zackzhou -
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF '树挪活,人挪死', ANY GOOD TRANSLATIONS?
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woodcutter -
Trees are life givers, people are bringers of death?
That's just a wild guess though.
ChineseHeel -
I think it is quite the opposite. The saying is actually "树挪死，人挪活”， somthing like "it is great for people to move, but it is deadly for trees to move".
ananda -
The main point is the latter part, it means it's not good for the trees to be moved, but for the human being, it's totaly different. If you can't find opportunity in one place, don't hesitate to change.
geek_frappa -
another loose translation:
"Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape."
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> Chinese Culture > Food chopsticks Home New Posts
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wix -
I have taken several quotes from this thread to start a new topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PollyWaffle
Whilst i enjoy using chopsticks, i consider them highly inefficient compared to knives, forks, spoons, and sporks. Whilst i enjoy learning/writing Chinese characters, i also consider them inefficient. Having said this, i don't think the Chinese should move away from using either - they are symbols of their cultural uniqueness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quest
Chopsticks for chinese food is highly efficient, because unlike in western cuisine, the chinese chef is responsible for chopping the food into tiny pieces(thus, the knife is not needed). it's really a matter of preference, and their efficiency depends on what food you eat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PollyWaffle
Quote:
the chinese chef is responsible for chopping the food into tiny pieces
i wish someone would have told this to the chef at the chinese restaurant i was at the other night. the pieces of pork were anything but bight size.
=====================
I might as well add my two kuai worth. Chopsticks are extremely inefficient for eating T-bone steak . They are very efficient for eating most kinds of Chinese food though.
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skylee -
Chopsticks are also good for eating leafy salads.
The chef is responsible for chopping the food into tiny pieces, as confucius said, "ղ", and also "ʲIJ".
Anonymous -
A major difference between Northern and Southern Chinese cuisine is that historically, Southern Chinese usually cut and slice meat and vegetables into smaller pieces and the dishes are generally more delicate.
However, many Chinese restaurants serving "American-styled" Chinese food tend to have giant chunks of meat and vegetables, not to mention all the "sweet and sour sauce" dripping off of them. This is why you don't normally see too many Chinese eating there.
Ch1nam4n -
I don't have much to add other than that I think chopsticks are a lot of fun to use. I like eating a lot, I like using chopsticks a lot, so eating with chopsticks is the best!
andreabt -
I do agree that Chinese restaurants here in the States tend to not cut the food up small enough, though in China, it seems to be acceptable to take a bite off a larger piece if it's not small enough to fit in your mouth.
That said, I find it awkward to try to eat Chinese food (anywhere) if I'm NOT using chopsticks! It just feels wrong
Tsunku -
I feel the same way about eating Chinese food without chopsticks. It does feel wrong.
Another thing I like about chopsticks is that you get a free hand! You don't have to put down your chopsticks whenever you want to take a sip of your drink.
snow -
being a Chinese myself but raised somewhere else I prefer using knives and forkes. I used to use chopstocks but changed into using forkes when i was around 7/8 years old. and i don't eat rice anymore from a bowl but from a plate. i still know how to use chopsticks though but not the 'normal' way like my parents do. the normal way would be to have some space in between the 2 chopsticks but somehow i can't manage to do that, even my big sister who uses only chopsticks when eating rice can't do that. i remember when i was one time in HK on holiday and I was eating in a Chinese restaurant with some of my parents friends and they saw that i had some problems using chopsticks (we were eating some round chape foods, fried fishballs or something) they called the waiter to give me some fork and knife. It was a little embarassing then. And wooden chopsticks (non varnished) have a better graps than those plastic chopsticks.
Anonymous -
I generally use spoons for rice. I don't see how people can use forks with rice. To me, using forks with rice is just as inefficient as using chopsticks. But then that's just me. However, I always use chopsticks when I eat noodles.
kangkai -
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabt
I do agree that Chinese restaurants here in the States tend to not cut the food up small enough, though in China, it seems to be acceptable to take a bite off a larger piece if it's not small enough to fit in your mouth.
That said, I find it awkward to try to eat Chinese food (anywhere) if I'm NOT using chopsticks! It just feels wrong
It depends on whom I'm with. If I'm at a chinese resturant with Chinese I use chopsticks, but if I'm with Americans I use fork, spoon and knife.
skylee -
Quote:
Originally Posted by kangkai
It depends on whom I'm with. If I'm at a chinese resturant with Chinese I use chopsticks, but if I'm with Americans I use fork, spoon and knife.
I really (i.e. not being sarcastic) admire those people who are able to eat noodles with a fork. I mean how can you avoid the soup jumping on to your face?
I always wonder why many HK young people who grow up using chopsticks cannot use them properly. Like snow, they cannot separate the two chopsticks, thus are not able to pick up the food properly. One of my younger colleagues always crosses the two chopsticks to somehow pick up the food and we the older ones all watch him a bit disapprovingly. (BTW, many of them don't hold a writing brush properly either. They hold it as if it were a pencil.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulong
I generally use spoons for rice. I don't see how people can use forks with rice.
If the rice is served on a plate, then I eat it with a fork. This is my habit. I am quite uneasy with the korean way of eating rice from a bowl with a metal spoon. I understand that the koreans consider it impolite to lift up the bowl. So a spoon is more efficient. To me it is best to eat rice from a bowl with chopsticks.
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> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening Singing in chinese?? Home New Posts
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geek_frappa -
benotnobody,
thanks!!! great site!!!
geek
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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing Prestigious rules defended by foreigners Home New Posts
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zh-laoshi -
speka? I guess I should use a spell checker too.
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