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chinese antiquarian books?
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student -

Does anyone know of dealers in Chinese antiquarian books? China has a very long history of
printing, so I would think there must be a market, but I'm not sure where to look...

Thanks!



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roddy -

Are you maybe confusing antiquarian with archaeological?










889 -

In English, "antiquarian books" are books which are themselves antiques, not books about
antiquities.

In Beijing, the various branches of the Cathay Book Store 中国书店 have plenty of ordinary
used books as well as a small collection of antiquarian books.

http://www.zgsd.net

The most interesting antiquarian books are usually reserved for auction and you'll find an online
exhibition of some of the books held for auction at the bottom of this page -- just click on a
book for more information.

http://www.zgsd.net/channel2.shtml












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ren wei chai si - help ?
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jiazhao -

Hello,

I am illiterate in Chinese. Can someone help with this?

ren wei chai si, niu wei si (food) wang.

From young, I seem to have heard in cantonese -
yan wai choi sei, niu wai ZI (?) mong.

My guess is ZI may mean a new born bird. So the meaning is :-
Man dies for wealth, while birds die for their young.
I am likely wrong. Is there this classical version with "zi".

Thanks
jiazhao



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skylee -

The saying is the same in Mandarin and Cantonese. It means, "men die for money, birds die for
food".

The "ZI" in your post means food. Its other Cantonese pronunciation, which is much more common, is
"sik". "zi" is an older pronunciation.

Although you can't read Chinese, the whold thing in Chinese is "人為財死，鳥為食亡".










jiazhao -

Thanks for the clarification.

I've got it now. Also I do read some simple Chinese like the words you gave.

jiazhao.












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Page 10 of 12 First < 89 10 1112 >






xiaocai -

Really? Then don't tell me you you haven't watched 流星花园. At least as I've noticed, most of
the girls, including 杉菜(徐熙媛) and 小优(杨丞琳), speak quite standard taiwanese
mandarin. But the main guy character 道明寺(言承旭) has a very strong accent and does drop
the "h"s.



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muyongshi -

Nope haven't seen that one...maybe I've only seen the not so famous ones...










xiaocai -

What a shame you haven't! But anyway, tudou's got the complete set for streaming, I think, for
free.
And what dramas and movies you've seen? I can't believe that you didn't hear any standard mandarin
at all in all of them. Most of them are more or less accented, indeed, but still far from "none".










muyongshi -

I can only remember one of about 5 right now and that is 我只在乎你. I will check the other
out if I get a chance...busy month!

In terms of not "hearing it at all" I will say that the amount of accent does vary greatly
depending on the age of the actor and I can maybe remember once where some one spoke fully
standard but other than that I have to say I cannot honestly remember anyone using it.










naeglerian -

This is an interesting thread. I am fairly certain that I learned "standard" Mandarin in weekend
Chinese school in the 1980s, with an ROC-based curriculum. Despite only going for a few years, I
retained the zh-ch-sh pronunciations. I still have tremendous issues with the er-hua that I am
supposed to learn now, though, as it just seems odd to me, from lack of familiarity.

Here's a couple of clips to add to the debate:

邓丽君 talking about ancient poems that were set to songs. Off topic, but I think she speaks
just as nicely as she sings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb3yZgTkNgs

換換愛 - a recent Taiwanese series. Lots of loss of the "h".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLQWZfpoQ8k

I suppose if you are around people who don't use the "h," you won't either. I have a friend from
Fujian who speaks something in between Taiwanese and Chinese Mandarin.










Lu -

I thought a bit more about fireball's claim and then realized that she probably meant something
like Beijing news anchors and Taiwan news anchors speak about the same style of Mandarin. And
that's true, I would still say that Taiwanese news anchors don't have such prominent zh ch sh, but
they do have a bit, while Beijing news anchors don't speak with a strong Beijing accent.

As to the question where you would hear people speak standard Mandarin in Taiwan: in my experience
only news anchors, Chinese teachers and people like Deng Lijun speak it like that. (A TW friend of
mine took a class in teaching Chinese to foreigners, but then quickly abandoned his plan to become
a teacher, as it seemed he had to learn to speak Chinese all over again.) When you think about it,
in Taiwan standard Chinese mostly exists in theory.










bhchao -



Quote:

Listen to Teresa Teng's (邓丽君) songs (Taiwan)! You can learn the best Mandarin just by
listening to her songs! So well-articulated, classical pronunciation, IMHO. Other singers of
Taiwanese origin have a very similar trained pronunciation, different from other Taiwanese
people...

As to the question where you would hear people speak standard Mandarin in Taiwan: in my experience
only news anchors, Chinese teachers and people like Deng Lijun speak it like that.

The officer corps of mainlander descent in Taiwan's military also speak excellent standard
Mandarin. I am not sure about today's generation of military officers, but high ranking military
officers in Taiwan born in the 1950's and 60's to mainlander parents spoke flawless standard
Mandarin like Deng Lijun. The ability to speak standard Mandarin with excellent pronunciation was
a criteria for moving up the military ranks, as it reflected the person's mainlander background.

Deng Lijun was born to a mainlander officer in Yunlin County, and raised in a military village in
Taiwan's central region. The people raised in these villages spoke excellent standard Mandarin.
They inherited their parents' influences in language pronunciation and work ethic.










ABCinChina -

I happen to be a descendant of those Chinese people that moved to Taiwan during the Communist
Revolution but I've been learning Chinese in China for 1.5 years.

One thing that gets me is that my Taiwanese mother tried to correct when when I told here there
was a time limit (期限 - qī xiàn) to get my worker's permit. Is the Taiwanese Mandarin
pronunciation of 期, qí or qi? (I'll try to remember to ask next time but maybe someone might
know)










skylee -



Quote:

Is the Taiwanese Mandarin pronunciation of 期, qí or qi? (I'll try to remember to ask next time
but maybe someone might know)

qí

Does your mother also tries to correct the 危 in your 危險?

You might find this thread useful -> Characters with different pronunciations on Mainland / Taiwan










fireball9261 -

I grew up with a school full of classmates who spoke standard Mandarin, and there were probably
several thousands (could be 10,000+) of us in my school (from kindergarden to high school and both
boys and girls). Considering my school existed from around 1950's to not (200 and each grades had
about 600+ people and there are about 15 grades, I would assume 600*15*50 (I guess I will use
about 50 years instead of 58 years) = 450,000 just from my school alone who would and could speak
standard Mandarin. That is not counting others in other schools I have noticed who also
speak/spoke standard Mandarin. Among these people, there were about 1-2% of people who had some
Taiwanese accents because of their family influences. However, all of us understood that to be
successful in Taiwan's society means we must speak correctly like educated persons and not like
any country persons on the streets. Therefore, we all tried very hard to learn how to speak the
correct and standard Mandarin and not Mandarin with our respective local accents (mine would be
the Wu accents from Shanghai or Zhejiang areas).

Now, Taiwan people are very good at doing business and know that to be a good businessman you must
speak the language of your customers! The current fashion is Taiwanese, and many people
deliberately speak Mandarin with the Taiwanese accents. Some even speak Mandarin with the
Taiwanese accents to prove a point politically. Many modern/current Taiwan politicians also want
to present a nice and friendly country bumpkin image to get close to their voters as well as many
actors and actresses on TV to get close to their fans. Some of them actually know and do speak
excellent standard Mandarin, but they don't do it in the public for their own images.

When I was growing up, Beijing style of Mandarin was a fashion and considered very upper class.
Therefore, I sometimes speak more like a Beijing person with very curled tongue and very
pronounced Zh, Ch, Sh, R sounds as well as deliberately added "er" endings in certain strategic
locations of a sentence. The trick is just enough "er" to be high class. Too much "er", you would
sound like a Beijing natives, and it would be laughable again. (Not that Beijing accents are bad,
but it would mean you don't have the correct standard Mandarin again!)

When I was in the Wu areas, I deliberately added Wu accents. When I was in Fujian areas, I
deliberately added Taiwanese accents. When I was in Beijing, I deliberately spoke with a lot of
"er" and emphasized my zh, ch, sh, r, like the natives. Thus, I would gain their help and their
friendship and had them (the locals) feeling close to me unconsciously. This is a way for business
and for travel. If I travel to the American South, I would say a lot of "You’ll". When I am
talking to the valley girls (my husband's nephews' girl friends), I would speak like a valley girl
as well. The current fashion in Taiwan is Taiwanese accent. According to my cousin (who married a
Taiwanese wife), many local Taiwanese would not do business with you if you don't have a Taiwanese
accent, so many Wai Shen Ren started speaking with Taiwanese accents. It's not that they don't or
couldn't speak the standard Mandarin, but they deliberately done so in public.

In Taiwan, the most concentrated people who speak standard Chinese are in Taipei and Taichung.
However, you need to get invited into the Wai Shen Ren homes and speak to their younger
generations. Unfortunately, it is also considered cool or cute to speak with a bit of Taiwanese
accent nowadays, so ... You might want to skip the teenagers and go directly to the people in
their 20's, 30's, and 40's (and more serious people) and specify that you want to hear the
standard Mandarin and not the accented ones. Many of them would and could do so.

Now, a little bit off the topic, and it's something I want to say to many in this forum before,
but I want to be polite and mannerly to our foreign (non-Chinese) friends, so I have been holding
back my tongues (which is usually sharper than when I am in this and another English Chinese
forums):

When my boyfriend/husband (a native Californian who had never gone to anywhere else other than
Canada and once to Mexico when he was very young) argued with me about his misunderstandings of
how Chinese women/girls would/should have behaved (as comparing to why I am behaving wrongly and
not according to my Chinese tradition), he would say that all the Chinese girls/women he had met
would not behave the ways I did! This is what I told him as well as what I would tell many of the
people on this thread:

I have grown up in Taipei for 18 years. Taipei has one of the most concentration of Chinese people
from all the provinces and overseas. With my father's law office located at home and my mother's
love to help people on their marriage and family problems (with the abused wives or abandoned
elderly and children or pregnant unwed teenagers or housewife with mental problems living with us
for months or years) and her tailor shop on one of the main streets of Taipei, I was exposed to
many various types of people (including Westerns, Japanese, and Koreans) since early childhood. I
am also very familiar with their ways of speeches and behavior patterns. There were no TV's (and
later very few TV programs) and the movie theaters were far and few between and expensive. Our
pastimes and entertainments were gathering with friends and neighbors and chat about all sorts of
things. That was how I got most of my information about attitudes and usage of words and speech
patterns and different outlooks in life, etc. I am also very well read in the past as well as now,
and in both English and Chinese, and in literatures and research papers from both coasts (mainland
and Taiwan) as well as many modern Science and Social Science subjects in the West. I also like to
compare what I have read to what I have observed around me. When I don't understand something, I
asked with respect of any one who could provide me the information and am grateful for any answers
I got even when they didn't match with what I know or understand because I could be wrong.
Fortunately, I lived very close to 2 major Universities: Taiwan Universities and Taiwan Normal
Universities, and my father had no lacking of professor friends who were experts (and some were
internationally known) in their fields, so I had no lacking of scholarly people to give me
theories and more acholarly answers. Also fortunately, my father had clients of farmers and
friends who came from farming and lowly backgrounds; my cousin was a low ranking police in Taiwan
and later a Li Zhang in the local areas, and he and his Taiwanese wife have a grocery store and
had many contacts with many people from all walks in life even the criminal elements. My mom also
had a lot of friends who came from military and later retired into lives of Taiwanese farmers and
young Taiwanese tailors who had no education and left home (in the Taiwan's country sides) at 16
years old to come to Taipei to look for jobs. We also had maids who were Taiwanese Aborigines or
from rich Taiwanese families to learn how to be a proper wife before their marriages (some of
their family traditions, I was told). Many of these young women became my friends and/or my mom's
god daughters. I learned to ask the lower class people as well as the less educated for my more
real world questions. These people were maids, taxi drivers, hotel maids, farmers' wives, cleaning
ladies in hotels or restaurants, owners of small grocery stores or street stands. I have done so
in the last 40+ years (now closer to 50 years) of my life and in many different provinces of China
as well as areas in Taiwan. My boyfriend/husband might have met 1000 (it is probably more than the
real number) Chinese girls/women in all of his life, and most of them were ABC's or girls/women
with Hong Kong heritage (not even the Cantonese heritage). How could he be qualified to tell me
that my behaviors are not normal for a Chinese girl/woman? He shut up after I took him to travel
to Taiwan and mainland China to meet my cousins and to Hong Kong and Shanghai for business -- He
met enough Chinese women in these travels and in more close up settings (spent in the close
company of my cousins and nieces and nephews) to understand my behaviors are more normal than his
perceptions of Chinese women from his impressions of the American born Chinese women.

I will also add something for the members of this forum: From what I am seeing in this forum, many
of the Westerners here in this forum (I do not include other Asians, including Indians, or Middle
Easterners who have similar backgrounds as Chinese and have a lot more knowledge about China than
many Westerners) have not been in China or Taiwan long (some may be for 10 years or less?) and
might have not traveled widely in China or might not have encountered variety of Chinese and get
very close and personal with them (I mean live with them in their homes for many years). How could
you make the statements and assumptions and put down others who have more experience than you? I
understand people would make such statements to a certain degree and tolerate it to a certain
degree. However, it does offend me and my sense as being a Chinese and a native speaker as well as
a Chinese with a more advanced age (probably) than many of the people on this forum.

Now, I don't smoke weed or take drugs and also never have any interest to try even though I grew
up during the tail end of the hippies and lived in California and had many friends who did do all
those things. I don't smoke nor like to drink too much alcoholic drinks either. In addition, I
never get totally drunk even when I drink. I do take personal offense when someone say, "you must
have taken some weed", etc., to me when I tried to tell you of my own experiences as a native
speaking Chinese who grew up in Taiwan and have been to Beijing and other parts of mainland China
and have friends in many levels of Chinese societies on both coasts.

I have been very helpful in this forum and believe I do not deserve such put downs. I understand
sometimes people do have loose tongues on internet and forums among friends, but I do request you
to be aware that Chinese are very serious people and easily get offended in the modern Western
style/ways of speaking. Although I have been in the West for 30 years (in California where it is
even more casual than most Western places) and could say that I sort of grew up in the Western
culture (since 18 years old). However, I did grow up in Taiwan for 18 years and had very
traditional upbringings, so some of my attitudes are quite traditional even though I do like manga
and anime and cartoons and could speak with teenagers without problems.

Recently, someone in this forum talked about some of the native speaking Chinese came and went
quickly or just left after a while. I feel it was possible that they got offended by some of the
ways they were treated on this forum by the Western people who have no or little understanding of
the Chinese culture and mentallities. Most Chinese would not understand the Western ways or would
not point this out to you all. However, I have no problems to do so. I am not planning to leave
this forum, but if you noticed that I have come to this forum less and less, it was due to my
unhappiness and the put downs of the people here. My continuous staying here is due to my vow to
contribute to increase understandings between Chinese people and other non-Chinese people in any
ways I could and my love to both Chinese culture and traditions and the hope that non-Chinese and
younger generations of Chinese would learn what I have learned from my Qing dynasty born father
and early Republic era mother and their friends from those eras.












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Page 7 of 12 First < 56 7 89 > »






skylee -

It means "得" and should be written as "得". What input method does your friend use? Does he use
cangjie? Or stroke order? Or bopomofo?

The bopomofo (zhuyin fuhao) for "得" is "ㄉㄜ" (among others). The one for "的" is also
"ㄉㄜ" (among others).

Some people do use "得" and "的" interchangeably. It does not seem to be a Taiwan thing.



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Rhubarb -

Actually the logic behind these 的s used in lieu of 得s shouldn't be that hard to get as it's
the same logic as in : 真的.
So this usage shouldn't be looked down upon, especially by native Chinese speakers.










Lu -

I suspect your friend has seen too many typing errors and has come to believe that 的 is also
correct in this case (perhaps combined with what skylee says, the bopomofo is the same for 的 and
得). People misspell in every language, Chinese is no exception.










muyongshi -



Quote:

I suspect your friend has seen too many typing errors and has come to believe that 的 is also
correct in this case (perhaps combined with what skylee says, the bopomofo is the same for 的 and
得). People misspell in every language, Chinese is no exception.

Agreed this is all about errors and what people mispell.



Quote:

Actually the logic behind these 的s used in lieu of 得s shouldn't be that hard to get as it's
the same logic as in : 真的.
So this usage shouldn't be looked down upon, especially by native Chinese speakers.

There is not really any logic behind this as 真 is not a verb and 得 is used after a verb. And
it's not looked down upon it's just simply wrong.










Rhubarb -



Quote:

There is not really any logic behind this as 真 is not a verb and 得 is used after a verb. And
it's not looked down upon it's just simply wrong.

There is a logic and it is looked down upon.










muyongshi -

Rather than just state what you have stated before would you mind explaining the logic for us....










Rhubarb -

What? You haven't asked your teacher yet? tsk tsk!










fireball9261 -



Quote:

It's better to ask an educated native speaker but to me this is correct:
我跑得很快

and this is incorrect:
我跑的很快

IMHO, it's a typo, wherever you are.

In my experience, 我跑的很快 is correct, and 我跑得很快 is incorrect, because 得 has
some other meaning and should be used differently and not in this particular sentence and in this
way. Right now, my brain is mud after eating too well from my Xmas party with friends, so I
couldn't give you a proper example. I will try to get back to this thread later.

I am a native Chinese speaker and have seen the usage of 的, 得, 地 changes from the early 1900
to now. Generally speaking, they are used interchangeably at one time or another. However, 的 and
地 are more like each other. 地 was used primarily in early 1900's. 得 is used in a more
specific ways in the past. Nowadays, more mainland Chinese use 得 like 的 and 地 in the past. I
am not sure whether the current modern mainland Chinese text books teach it this way, or just the
usage changes due to one reason or another. Chinese language usage transforms from one period of
time to another. For example: The term "afraid" was always "害怕" (hai4 pa4), but I have seen
the term "後怕" (hou4 pa4 - afraid afterwards) used by the mainland Chinese more and more
nowadays. I feel it is OK to use this term in some places (when the fear occurred after an
incident), but not correct in many other incidences (like when one is afraid right then). However,
who am I to stand in front of the changing language usage, especially there are a few billion
mainland Chinese who are using it (even wrongly)?










atitarev -

Wow, fireball9261.

I respect the fact that you're a native speaker but you're wrong in this instance. Other native
speakers (Skylee, Muyongshi) have confirmed my point.

I know these rules about the correct usage of 的, 得 and 地 are not always followed even by
native speakers but I prefer to do the write thing.










Lu -

Fireball, I'm afraid you're mistaken, the three are often confused but in correct usage cannot be
used interchangably. A lot of people, including native speakers, get it wrong all the time, but
that still doesn't make it right. Here's a thread with explanations.












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Chinese r
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Mandolin Bee -

Hello! I started learning Chinese via Rosetta Stone only two days ago! ^_^ I'm pleased to have
found this forum.

I've tried the search function, but unfortunately it came back with so many results and the first
two pages didn't quite have what I needed.

I've read various descriptions of how to pronounce the Chinese 'r' sound, and through
experimentation and audio examples, I'm inclined to believe that it is VERY close if not identical
to the French 'r'.

You think this might be a good way to think about it, or should I abandon this association before
I have it's a habit?

I hope this made sense.

-- The Bee



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dalaowai -

Hi Mandolin Bee,

I'm a native French speaker and the R in French and Mandarin are not alike.

The R sound in French requires you to make a rolling noise in the back of your throat, whereas in
Mandarin it does not.

With that being said, many non-native French speakers who learn to speak French are never able to
make that rolling sound, which in turn sounds very similar to how the R sound should be pronounced
in Mandarin.

I hope this helps. Good luck!










mirgcire -

What better way to learn how to pronounce "r" than a picture? (I have spent hours trying to figure
out how to draw this diagram, so I welcome any feedback: positive or negative.)

The key to pronouncing the mandarin "r" is tongue position. The sound similar to the English "r",
but the tongue position gives it a kind of buzzy quality.

As you can see from the diagram, the tip of the tongue is near those little bumps above the teeth.
The buzziness comes from the air flowing through the constriction formed by the tip of the tongue
and the roof of the mouth.

The word "ri" (日) is a good place to start. This word is pronounced without moving the tongue at
all. Just position your tongue like the diagram and try to say "er". Now try it again with a
falling tone and you should be pretty close.



Hope this helps










Lu -

I'd describe it as between the English r and the French j (as in jean or je).










Mandolin Bee -

Thank you all very much. ^_^ Tongue positions don't seem to help me much. I guess I'll just
continue to try and mimic Rosetta Stone and perhaps over time it will become easier.










Colossus -

I think the tongue position is perfect. However, the picture is a little difficult since it's not
three dimensional.

However, the poster was exactly right when he said it is all about tongue position. When you say
an American "r", your tongue is curled and much further back than the "r" in Chinese.










realmayo -

Thinking it's similar to the "ge" at the end of "garage" helps me.
Thinking it's similar to "r" at the start of "run" is utterly unhelpful for getting the sound
right.

Better still: follow the link http://www.sinosplice.com/lang/pronunciation/04/ to John Pasden's
Sinosplice site, from which the below paragraph is pulled:

>> Say the word "leisure." Now focus on the end, the "-sure" part. Is your tongue pulled way back
in your mouth? It should be. And the tip of your tongue should be pointing up. Now leave off the
"-s-" and just make the "-ure" part. Did you notice how saying "-sure" made your tongue vibrate a
little but just saying "-ure" doesn't? See if you can bring back just a little of that buzzy
vibration without returning fully to the "-sure" part. <<










Mandolin Bee -

Ack.. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that the diagram was wrong or anything. Just that trying
to mimic it physically still doesn't help me produce the sound I hear in audio examples. I had
been to the site that uses the leisure example, but it didn't help either because my tongue is
neither pulled far back in my mouth at the end, nor is the tip pointed upwards, so ... yeah, the
description just didn't help.

Not trying to be argumentative. The closest I've gotten to the chinese r is with the french r (but
I can do the throat rolling thing, so that doesn't help!).

Truth is, I'm normally very good at mimicking various sounds (I can speak and sing like numerous
different people and can emulate french, spanish, and certain british accents pretty well.) It was
very easy for me to pick up the japanese 'r' sound, as it's pretty much how I approximate the
rolling spanish 'll' sound (I cannot roll my r's).

So, trying to emulate the chinese 'r' and not being able to is absolutely frustrating to me, even
if it's only a minor issue. Through perseverance, I'm sure I'll be able to. I was just looking for
a shortcut. Too bad it turned out to be no good. :P

Thanks to all of you again, I appreciate the friendly and helpful nature of the people around here.












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> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Guarantor for Bei Da
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xiaomoogle -

I’m looking to apply for a one or two semester Chinese lang course at Bei Da but the application
form asks for a Guarantor in Beijing.
Umm…..I don’t know anyone in Beijing.
Also I’m supposed to show evidence of full time Chinese language learning, which I don’t have,
having just done evening classes and employed a Chinese tutor.



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adrianlondon -

I had the same issue when I applied to BNU.

I wrote a fake letter and signed it saying I had studied Mandarin for a year part time. To be
honest, I think that was a waste of time as I could have just said I was a complete beginner. BNU
has no problems with complete beginners but I know Beida does.

I also made up a name and address in Beijing for the guarantor section. My advice is ... don't
leave anything on the form blank but don't expect anything to be checked for accuracy.










billiardsmike -

I think these types of questions on application forms are there simply because they are translated
from the domestic application forms. Asking a foreigner who is pre-paying their tuition in full to
have a Chinese resident guarantee their expenses is a little ridiculous. I and a friend listed
each other as guarantors. They never checked either of us to verify. You could probably list Santa
Claus.










adrianlondon -



Quote:

You could probably list Santa Claus.

Unless you've been a naughty boy.










imron -

Just to add something, I recall from my application back in 2002, that the guarantor is not a
financial guarantor, just someone that they can contact in case of an emergency, unfortunately,
the word they chose for this is English is a bit misleading. The Chinese is quite clear though.












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> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
WHO standardisation of TCM terminologies
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skylee -

I read on a newspaper that the WHO has recently announced the international standard terminologies
for traditional Chinese medicine. The writer of the column I read highlights that the traditional
script is used in the standard to avoid confusion, and I find it interesting and, to some extent,
encouraging.

Here is the WHO document.



Quote:

English is chosen as the main language for the international standard terminology for TRM in the
Western Pacific Region, because it is the most commonly and internationally used language.
Following each term in English, Han characters are attached as the given original terms. In doing
so, the original complex form of a Han character is employed rather than the simplified
characters, because some countries may simplify Han characters differently.





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muyongshi -



Quote:

to some extent, encouraging.

I think I can guess why but would you care to elaborate.....










gato -

Interesting. I've started some TCM accu-puncture/pressure therapy for backpain, and among the
treatment is 火罐 (I remember someone translated it as "cupping"), which is said to remove
寒氣, but I don't see either term listed. What is 寒氣 anyway? Is it just superstition?

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/32788084.html
请问拨火罐时，颜色深浅能说能什么吗?










skylee -

If you search for the word 寒, you will find many entries (different types of 寒).

You can find 拔罐 on page 254 (code 5.3.0).

I think it is encouraging because I use traditional script. That's all.










helen19850406 -

I do belive
I'm a Chinese,though I haven't use it
but I had used other traditional medicine
it's incredible










deezy -

Hmm, interesting, thanks for the 411..










studentyoung -



Quote:

Interesting. I've started some TCM accu-puncture/pressure therapy for backpain, and among the
treatment is 火罐 (I remember someone translated it as "cupping"), which is said to remove
寒氣, but I don't see either term listed. What is 寒氣 anyway? Is it just superstition?

Hehe.According to your description, it seems that the doctor used cupping to improve the blood
circulation on your back to ease the sore in your back muscles.寒气 here might mean the symptom
caused by bad circulation.

Cheers!










gato -

I think so, but the doctor talked about the air conditioning system causing 寒气. Hmm....










cdn_in_bj -

The locals are very sensitive to cold winds or drafts, they say that wind blowing on your face can
cause your facial muscles to "freeze up", sort of like a botox treatment I suppose. Supposedly,
the cure is acupuncture.










hbuchtel -



Quote:


Originally Posted by skylee

The writer of the column I read highlights that the traditional script is used in the standard to
avoid confusion, and I find it interesting and, to some extent, encouraging.


That is interesting!

The WHO list was put together by folks from Korea, Japan and China, so I guess the traditional
script is the common denominator, so to speak.

What I've heard is that the committee was basically given a choice between choosing english terms
from Xie Zhu-fan's (谢竹藩) term set and Nigel Wiseman/Feng Ye's term set. The result ended up
being about half and half. The result is pretty good (ie there is not much use of biomedical
equivalents), but the list is simply too short... I'm using it and found more then half the
technical terms in the document I was translating were not in the WHO list.

Gato, the standard ways of saying 寒气 are 寒邪 or 外寒. The theory is that if your 正气
is weak you are susceptible to invasion by external cold, which can take up residence in your body
if not treated in time. That is just theory.. you can take it or leave it.. but the symptoms you
were experiencing are considered to be a sign of "cold evil" in your body, and the cupping reduces
those symptoms.

Regards,

Henry












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> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
History books of the various dynasties
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lilongyue -

One of my long-term goals is to translate Chinese history books into English, as there are almost
no "popular "history books (meaning for non-scholars) available about ancient China.  I'm
especially interested in the classical dynasties (Tang, Sung, etc.).  I'm interested in modern
history books, written in modern Chinese, about those eras.  I'm not interested in ancient texts
or classic novels based in those times.  

For those of you who have read some history books in Chinese, can you recommend any?  Are there
any famous Chinese historians I should check out?  Also, what do you think of Mainland scholars
versus Taiwanese, or Hong Kong scholars?  Given the Mainland approach to history, and the
Communist government's censorship and control, I have the feeling that Mainland scholars might not
be accurate.  I'm worried that if I read Mainland history books I'll just get the version of
history approved by the Communist party.



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gato -

There are many such books published in the mainland. The best thing to do since you are in
Hangzhou is to spend some time in the history section of a large bookstore near you. As you say,
many history used as textbooks in the mainland are written from the perspective of the Party.
Books written for the popular consumer market, however, are less politically dogmatic.
There are many such dynasty-oriented history books available. These on the Tang Dynasty, for
example: http://search.dangdang.com/search.as...key5=&catalog=

I recently bought a copy of 重读中国历史 (Re-reading Chinese History), which seems very
good. It's a look at many major events in Chinese history from a somewhat contrarian perspective
(contrarian compared to the standard textbook account, that is).

In general, books published in HK and Taiwan will be more objective, but these markets are smaller
and publish much fewer books compared to the mainland. So it's best to look at books published
from all three places and choose the best available. For instance, I've been looking for a general
history book (通史) that covers the entire span of Chinese history, and most such 通史 books
published in China are either textbooks written from the Party perspective already mentioned or
from the pre-1949 era written in classical Chinese (read almost only by scholars today). The few
choices available from publishers in Taiwan appear to be more on the level of historical survey
books that you would see in the West (e.g. History of Europe, etc.).










wushijiao -



Quote:

I'm worried that if I read Mainland history books I'll just get the version of history approved by
the Communist party

I don't know if it is quite that simple. For textbooks, sure, they all propagandistic. But for
more general history, I think there aren't really strict restraints, and the more specialized the
history books, especially in areas that aren't sensitive, the more objective. Also, many scholars
are Mainland history fans take history too seriously too be simply lured in by propaganda.

It seems to me that Hong Kong and Taiwan have a lot of great books that you can't find in the
Mainland, especailly about modern history, but the Mainland just has a huge population, and thus
the number of books written in the Mainland just surpasses that of those areas. Even in Hong Kong
bookstores, about half or more of the history books are published in the Mainland.

I think the biases are more subtle. In my view, the two biggest biases are:

1) A pro-China/pro-Han bias. For example, in books about the Qing dynasty, the slaughter of over a
million Dzungars in order to solidify the empire doesn't get much press, but the Opium Wars do.
(Of course, the actions of the British and the other Western powers were morally appalling). But,
China benefits still from the borders that were paid for in blood, using the same imperial logic
that other empires used. However, by not mentioning the atrocities committed by China, and often
describing the atrocities caused by foreigners in very emotionally-laden language, people
mistakenly get the impression that the actions of the past imperial governments were peaceful and
benevolent, and by extension, that China is a “peaceful country” by nature. (Of course, I’m
not necessarily arguing that it won’t be in the future).

2) Many histories suffer from the "dynastic cycle complex", in which the official politics of the
dynasties are over-emphasized compared to some of the broader and more important changes in the
wider society.

Anyway, if you want to translate a modern historian, maybe you could try something by 易中天?
He is a popular, controversial author that writes best-selling history books that have been hugely
successful with the public. He has written about the Three Kingdoms period, and about the Han,
among other. (But some people think his books have some flaws).










gato -

I bought a book called "宋代政治史" (A Political History of the Song Dynasty) in my usual
jaunt through the local bookstore the other day. I've only skimmed through it so far, but it
appears to be exactly the kind of book that's been so lacking: a broad-scoped
Jonathan-Spence-level history text about a period in relatively-easy-to-read modern language. It
reminds me of a great book called "Taiwan: A Political History" written by Denny Roy, a researcher
at the University of Hawaii. This book is like that book but about the Song Dynasty.

Like in many other areas, some of the best history books by Chinese authors were written in the
1912-1949 period (between the fall of the Qing Dynasty and the founding of the PRC), many of them
written entirely or almost entirely in classical Chinese, as most readers at the time had an
extensive background in classical Chinese. But few people nowadays are comfortably reading an
entire book written in classical Chinese, and these books could use some updating.










lilongyue -

Thanks for all the info. When I have a chance to make it to a book store, I plan on looking for
some of the titles you mentioned.












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